You should also apologise for your delusional opinions! First of all Ward Churchill is not an American Indian so I could care less what that poseur says. AIM represents a small minority of American Indians and are Communists. The only reason that this group supports the phony “Palestinians” is because they were given the phony “Palestinians” indigenous crap propaganda. I’ve heard through the grapevine that some members don’t want to be associated with the so-called “Palestinians” anymore.

I’m pretty sure I know more Indians than you and can tell you that when they know the truth they definately support the right of Jews to their homeland. I have changed many minds, not just Indians, on this issue.

In my opinion there is very little difference between being pro-Jewish and pro-Zionist. Being anti-Zionist is being anti-Jewish. If you told me that I didn’t have rights to my land in America than you would definately be anti-Indian.

I would debate you in person because I know I have truth on my side. The fact is that you haven’t answered my questions about the non-existance of a “Palestinian” language, society, culture. If this ethnic group actually existed it wouldn’t be hard to prove. When did a “Palestinian” country exist. And why were the Jews first to be called “Palestinian?”

Are you a Muslim? That would explain a lot. You really are obssessed with the Jews. Why?

Malia,

Proud to be an Ameircan Indian Zionist!

“You make a lot of good points but I still don’t see the need for another Arab country. The Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians” should return to Jordan and Egypt where they are from.”

Not all of them are not indigenous to this land. And even if they all were, it wouldn’t change a thing. The census Scott quotes is not entirely accurate (not surprising, seeing as his source is Edward Said), it is his conclusions that are false- but there WERE Arab people living on this land for centuries. Trying to wish them away is pointless. Seding them into exile would be unwise, unfair and just plain cruel- we all know how the Palestinians are treated in the refugee camps of Lebanon. I have a friend in Ramallah, I wouldn’t want her exiled. There is no need for “another Arab country”- but there IS a need for Palestinian self-rule as the only realistic solution for the conflict. The rest is wishful thinking.

Scott- in case you didn’t know, many Native Americans support Israel. You know why? Because they know a thing or two about nations in exile. Yes, many of the Israeli Jews are immigrants or descendants of immigrants- but the question of who is indigenous is merely a question of how big a period of time one chooses to review. Any archaeologist worth his salt will tell you that the Jewish nation is indigenous to this land. Our return to it is not “colonialism”, it is a Reconquista. We reclaimed the only piece of land that was ever rightfully ours, and this does not deprive the Palestinian Arabs of their own indigenous rights. There is more than a million of them living in Israel, and living better than their bretheren in the nearby Arab ruled states.

I’d love to chat if you visited Oakland, but I’ve found with such backwards thinkers like yourself, it’s impossible to have a rational conversation. You can write and believe in all the lies you want, but that won’t make them true. You can not believe my statistics, but that doesn’t make them untrue. And you can cite two American Indians and one group, but that does not mean a people support Israel. Look, I can do it, too! Ward Churchill, Leonard Peltier, American Indian Movement. Ta Da!

Your faulty thinking is made evident by your statement here:

There are many American Indians who support the Jews

You’ve been duped into believe that supporting Jews and supporting Israel are one in the same. Israel, just like Zionism, does not represent the Jewish people, just some Jewish people. I think all peoples should support one another, and if they must, only oppose one another’s ideologies and actions.

You are the one that is delusional since being unemployed and doing drugs does make people insane. The fact is that you are the racist for telling me what a real Indian should think like. What the hell do you know?! You have the gall, as a White boy, to tell me what opinions I should as an American Indian!!

It’s obvious you have never met a real American Indian since you don’t know anything about the way we think. There are many American Indians who support the Jews, who are the real indigenous people of Israel, like Professor David Yeagley, Santos Hawk Blood Saurez and the Canadian Indian group who went on a solidarity trip to Israel last year.

Unlike you we know who are the real indigenous people of a land are and the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians” aren’t. Why doesn’t a “Palestinian” language, culture, society, or country ever existed? The word “Palestine” is of Roman orgin not Arabic. The letter P doesn’t even exist in the Arab alphabet. I should add that the “Philistines” have no connection to the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians.”

I don’t believe the stats your provided. I have done my own research and would never believe people who write books that are funded by Saudi Arabia. Edward Said by the way claims to have been born in Jerusalem which is a complete fabrication like most of his books.

You seem to think all the Jews are “White” and Arabs are dark but why was Arafat lighter-skinned than Sharon? Many Jews are dark-skinnned because their families have always lived in the Middle East. That is why the Arabs are the ones who have occupied land and started wars with the Jews not the other way around.

The only thing that I agree with you on is that Walid Shoebat isn’t a “Palestinian,” because they don’t exist.

I have been to Oakland several times and next time I’m in the area I’ll contact you. I dare you to tell me to my face that I’m not an Indian. Then you’ll find out what happens when you make an Indian woman mad.

Malia, here’s factual info on the population of Palestine:

The estimated population of Palestine in 1893, under the Ottoman Empire, was 469,000 (98%) Arabs, composed of a mixture of Muslims and Christians, and 10,000 (2%) Jews. In 1897, the population of Arabs was 563,000 and of Jews was 21,500, slightly shifting the population proportions to 96% and 4% respectively. In 1912, the estimated population of Palestine was 525,000 (93%) Arabs and 40,000 (6%) Jews. By 1920, the population of Arabs was 542,000 (90%) and of Jews was 61,000 (10%).

From: McCarthy, Justin, The Population of Palestine, (New York: Columbia University Press, 1980) p.10, quoting corrected Ottoman figures; Clifford A. Wright, Facts and Fables: the Arab-Israeli Conflict (London and New York: Kegan Paul International, 1989); Rashid Khalidi, ‘xxxx’ in Edward Said and Christopher Hitchens (ed.) Blaming The Victims, (London and New York: Verso Books, 2001)

Most of the Jews that you claim are “from” Israel are immigrants from Europe. Not even Dave or Womble will deny that fact. The modern incarnation of Israel is that of a colonial-settler state. If you really are a Native American, you should understand something about colonization. But from reading your twisted thoughts, you seem about as Native American as Walid Shoebat is Palestinian.

Finally Malia, oh sage one, what concessions has Israel ever, ever made to its Arab neighbors? I’m willing to accept that there might have been a few, but I can’t recall any, unless you count war, occupation, and the stealing of territory by force as concessions. Oh yeah, and offering to create bantustan ghettoes and call it a state.

You make a lot of good points but I still don’t see the need for another Arab country. The Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians” should return to Jordan and Egypt where they are from. A “Palestinian” country would only enable those Arabs who are brainwashed to think that their ancestors were indigenous to Israel and would create more of a incentive to destroy Israel.

If creating another Arab country would lead to peace then it would be a good idea but I doubt that would happen. I read the Arab media several times a week and it’s clear that creating a “Palestinian” country is seen as a steppping stone to destroying Israel. If the Arab countries really wanted peace with Israel they would have had it decades ago. I wouldn’t trust them.

Of course my opinions don’t really matter because I’m not Jewish nor do I live in Israel but it seems that Israel is helping further their own destruction.

Since I’ve been reading about Israel’s history I’m constantly amazed at how many times Israel has made concessions to the Arabs only to be burned again and again. I don’t see anything that would be different this time.

To be honest, I don’t think it is possible for a Palestinian state to NOT exist. The Israeli presence on the territories was a forced defensive measure- as long as Jordan remained an enemy of Israel, it would be foolish to give them back a perfect launching pad for attacks such as the West Bank. But the way I see it, the creation of a Palestinian state is today inevitable. There is a limit to how long one can keep a large group of people without citizenship, however good they are treated. Since the Palestinians are not interested in being loyal citizens of Israel, they have to be given self-rule- but not at all costs. Israel is interested in it too- at the moment, we are forced to supply them with electricity and water for free and even keep their sewer systems in order, and it is too much of an economic burden for a small state like ours.

So you’re a Native American? That’s awesome!

You keep showing your stupidity! I’m American Indian so I can hardly be labeled a “racist colonial type.” Oooh! What a trendy phrase. I bet you think your’re so cool writing that. I didn’t mention race at all in my comment so you must hallucinating. Calling me racist instead of debating the facts doesn’t surprise me since you have nothing to base your ignorant opinions on.

I actually get my ideas from the truth and facts and not from Arab/Muslim propaganda. I can send you all the information from my research and it will tear your opinions to shreds.

In the future you are the one that will look like the idiot for supporting a bogus cause.

Womble,

I’m a woman! Doesn’t my name give it away? Anyway, I don’t think that a “Palestinian” state should exist since there are nearly two dozens Arab countries out there. The Jews shouldn’t have to give away their land to a fraudulent people who want to kill them.

As for Malia, he/she is merely short sighted somewhat. The Palestinian people as an independent entity did not exist before the Zionist movement began settling in the Land of Israel. Argue with it all you want, but the fact remains that the Arabs of Palestine were never treated as an ethnicity of their own, nor did they strive for independence, nor did they have an identity of their own that would separate them from the rest of the Arab nation. Today, however, the Palestinian nation, shaped primarily by its relationship with Zionism, does exist, and I see no reason to deny that. Which is why I, personally, am not opposed to the creation of a Palestinian state. It is what the PLO mafia wants to do with this state that bothers me.