Fundamental Ignorance
June 06, 2005 | Aussie Dave | Comments 11
My various online “debates” with the anti-Israel brigade are usually characterized by flimsy arguments on the other side. The debates usually end with my adversary ignoring whatever arguments I make, either unable or unwilling to offer any kind of rebuttal (probably unable). As a result, I am often levelling the charge of ignorance at these people.
I was considering going easy on usual suspect dAWK, if not for the fact that he has gotten rather nasty in his latter responses. But I couldn’t ignore his latest display of ignorance
June 04, 2005
Back to Real Life for a Bit
In an effort to do my part to celebrate Israel’s “Independence” Day tomorrow, I’ll be posting up something rather significant (at least in the terms this blog). After that, I’m taking a break from for about a week. Got some school work and other projects in real life that need attending to. Might post up a couple announcements, but that’s it.Please do come back! In case you’re interested, here are a few upcoming posts I’m working on:Bob Avakian is Not the Messiah Until You Admit You’re Racist, How Can We Have a Dialogue? Anarchism and Palestinian Liberation
And speaking of Palestine and racists, if you’re in SF, come out and protest “Israel in the Garden” tomorrow. Sure to be a most interesting time had by all.
You can almost hear dAWK patting himself on the back for coming up with the bright idea of “celebrating” Israel’s Independence Day in this way. And you would think that someone who dedicates so much of his time to opposing the existence of Israel would at least know when Israel came into existence. But the problem is that Israeli Independence Day was almost a month ago.
dAWK was probably referring to Yom Yerushalayim (Jerusalem Day), which marks the return of the Old City and the Western Wall to Israeli sovereignty during the Six Day War. You know – the war of self-defence in which Israel smashed the neighboring Arab armies attempting to wipe Israel from the map.
The purpose of this post? Not to “score points” against dAWK, which does not interest me, but rather illustrate to all of you the depth of ignorance we are dealing with here.
Filed Under: General
About the Author: An Australian immigrant to Israel, Aussie Dave has been blogging since early 2003.
so an honest mistake qualifies as blatant, “fundamental” ignorance. that’s utter nonsense.
i’ve seen it called jerusalem day, national day, and yes, independence day, by those more learned than myself. All the pro-Israel events called it celebrating 57 years of Israel, so it encompasses more than 1967. I am almost inclined not to fix it, just to spite you, but in the interest of accuracy I will. I think it’s amusing how you felt compelled to write another post on it.
official names and a span of three weeks couldn’t be any more irrelevant to the issues of occupation and ethnic cleansing which have been going on for 38 and 57 years.
i’m glad to see you’re still safely residing in the mythical world of 1967 as “self-defense” and also categorizing me as opposing the existence of Israel.
I’ve gotten nasty? What? Cause your nonsense is sickening? You’re the one who started this on-line infatuation with me. I had nothing to do with. I just react to disgusting racism when I see it.
scott
Angry White Kid
When you spend so much time maligning Israel, “honest” mistakes don’t cut it. And expect people like me to call you out on your sloppiness/ignorance. If you can’t handle it, I suggest that blogging is not the right medium for you.
With regards to your hysterical calls of racism and ethnic cleansing, you are still yet to provide even a shred of evidence of either.
And one last thing..did it ever occur to you that the reason I have referred to your posts on numerous occasions is because you write such blatant nonsense? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the only infatuation going on is between you and your hatred for Israel.
Well, actually if you consider occupation to have been occuring for 57 years, then you pretty much admit yourself as opposing Israel’s existence. Don’t mean to get in the way here though. Carry on.
Sorry, didn’t mean to take anonymous potshots there, just forgot to sign in.
Exactly! You have gotten to the crux of the matter. People like dAWK oppose Israel’s existence. At least dAWK is less secretive about it.
First off let me say that the 67′ war was a defensive war flat out. Besides the consisent terror attacks spawning from the Syrian and shooting attacks done by the Syrian army on the Galilee farmers.
There was also slightly less well known part. Egypt had planned for “Operation: Dawn (al-Fajr)”. The plan for this operation was to strike Eilat and take over the negev. Their was also a flyover of the Egyptian airforce over dimona. And Egypt had another plan called “operation: Leopard” where they were going to bomb the [heavily populated] Israeli coast.
Also taking the words of nasser
“We Knew that closing teh Gulf of Aqaba meant war with Israel,”…
“If war comes it will be total and the objective will be Israel’s destruction… This is Arab power.”
And this is all besides Egypts militarization of the sinai, it’s allying of Syria, and having Jordanian troops put under its command.
(source: Six days of War, by Michael B. Oren)
Now onto the ethnic cleasning stuff. I never understood how people can claim ethnic cleasning yet at the same time have a palestinian population of 3.8 (or is it 2.4 million) in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza (and still growing).
Also looking at the death atlas
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat4.htm
Israel vs. Palestinians:
* SIPRI 1997: 13,000 killed (1948-96)
* B’Tselem: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in The Occupied Territories [http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Total_Casualties.asp] 9 Dec 1987-May 2003 (cross-ethnic killings only)
o In Occupied Territories
+ Palestinians: 3544
+ Israelis: 532
o In Israel
+ Palestinians: 106
+ Israelis: 610
o TOTAL
+ Palestinians: 3650
+ Israelis: 1142
+ TOTAL: 4792
You can see that from 1948-2003 about 20,000 PLO arabs have been killed in fighting with Israel. (Most likely including the the killing of collaboraters, ‘work accidents’, and so on that are attributed to Israel).
And hey since I’m on a tirade, I might as also discuss the BS “right of return”. The fact is the 4 million PLO arabs living in those arab refugee camps are not refugees. Under the UNRWA definition the PLO arabs are the only ones who can pass their refugee status to their children, which for obvious reasons is complete garbage.
Here is the definition in full
http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html
To put it simply if you have step father who is “palestinian” you now are officially a refugee. (Think about that)
And as David has put it, please give some stuff to support your statements.
Well said Mr Anonymous.
The 1967 being a war of self defence is WELL RECOGNIZED by almost all but the anti-Israel brigade. And had it been a war of agression launched by Israel, UN resolution 242 would surely have condemned Israel and called for an unqualifed withdrawal from all the territories captured. Instead, it contains a “land for peace” formulation.
You are also spot on with the “refugee” issue. Regarding ethnic cleansing, the only type is the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the PA areas. How come Jews are not allowed to live in PLO Arab controlled territories? Israel has Israeli Arabs, yet the idea of Jewish communities in the PA areas is seen as an abomination.
Don’t expect dAWK to back up his assertions, since he has nothing but hatred to support his side.
Well that comment was from me Manker
I got pissed and forgot to write my name.
Anyways, the hypocracy of the Jews not being able to live in the PA areas while Israel has arabs is just the tip of the iceburg.
For example in Jpost article (that I cannot find at the moment). The columnists writes about how the JNF is now required to sell land to arabs. While this shouldn’t be a big deal, it’s complete hypocracy because of the way the arabs protested the greek orthodox selling land to Jews. Why must the JNF sell territory to arabs, which the original purpose of the JNF is help collect land for Israel. While it’s unacceptable for a patriarch to sell land that does not belong the PLO arabs to Jews.
But I’m sure you and I can find many more examples of this hypocracy.
wow, going out to protest Independence day when he doesn’t even know that it was almost a month ago. that is so pathetic. in the past I would let such protests upset me but now I can only laugh.
well, I’d write more but I’m off to celebrate 4th of July.
Scott-
“i’ve seen it called jerusalem day, national day, and yes, independence day, by those more learned than myself.”
Surely that should have told you a thing or two about how “learned” these people were.
Oh and if you seriously believe that the 1967 war was anything but defensive for Israel, do explain why it was Egypt and not Israel that demanded the evacuation of the UN force from Sinai- the most effective buffer between the two states. And why Egypt felt such an urge to block the Eilat port with their warships.
Then again, I recall you saying that you still believe a massacre happened in Jenin, much in the spirit of your favorite Ilan “History should not be based on facts” Pappe…
I wish dAWK would open his bowels elsewhere, the stench is unbearable.