A Small Word on What is Happening in Gaza
Aussie Dave | Aug 16, 2005 | 25 comments
To those of you wondering why I have been relatively quiet in the face of the expulsion of Jews from their homes in Gaza, it is a combination of being insanely busy, and not having anything to add to what I have already said in the past.
But I do want my brothers and sisters being expelled to know that I am very aware of your pain and sadness at being turfed out of your homes, for no other reason than to placate both Israel’s allies and foes.
And while our enemies sing and dance on the streets, we will be crying.
Note: To any of our enemies who may be reading this, and taking heart at the sight of soldiers and residents of the communities crying their eyes out, just know that crying, praying, discussing, and protesting are all our responses to perceived injustice. Shooting and blowing up innocent people are not.
About the Author
An Australian immigrant to Israel, Aussie Dave has been blogging since early 2003.Filed Under: General
It’s incredible to witness the JEWISH reaction to persecution and violation! Our brothers and sisters are being forced out of their homes… driven from their communities so that the enemy can occupy OUR beautiful land!!!
I could cry all day watching the news on Israeli neworks. I was actually sobbing watching a female soldier and a young Neve Dekalim woman embrace. They were both shaking with sobs and tears!
Can you imagine going into somebody’s home and forcing them to leave? This is a small country… many of the soldiers actually know these families!!! The whole situation is horrific… what does G-d Almighty think of His children now? L-rd help us!
your comment on the difference between the Arab response and the Jewish response is more than apt, its exact.
would that the Israeli Government and anti-settlement Jews recognize that even if horrible decisions have to get made, that real suffering is involved. We need to embrace our brothers and sisters, not ostracize them
> Shooting and blowing up innocent people are not.
So shooting down 13-year-old Palestinian girls is OK, because they can not be innocent, right?
From a newspaper article:
An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a
13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed
a warning from another soldier that she was a
child by saying he would have killed her even
if she was three years old.
Read the full story at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1358173,00.html
hi,
this is gonna be long and tough for you to read, as it is tough for me to watch the mess in the M-E.
I am not an arab or a jew.
I just have some points that I hope you guys think abt.
Yes, its sad to see jews crying, but all this wouldnt happen if:
1) hitler was more efficient in killing jews, then we wouldnt have so much instability in the M-E. where a horde of zionists heavily supported by the yanks and most global media are terrorising arabs.
2) If the brits, had managed the palestine mandate issue much better, if a managed entry of jews and reasonable demarcation of the land had been carried out, both wouldnt still be enemies.
3) If the zionists had elected to plonk themselves on some god forsaken dump or africa or wherever, no one would bother.
4) If the arabs had better leaders, leaders who cld actually lead and not be the utter incompetents they are, there wouldnt be a catastrophe to be remembered every year,
5) and so on and so forth, yada yada, etc etc.
but the reality is, the arabs have a huge boil on their collective arse called the zionists or israelis, and the israelis have a huge eyesore called the palestinians.
I hope the arabs learn some lessons from the zionists,
1) How to milk a catalclysmic events for all the sympathy you can possibly generate.
2) How to manage and influence most mainstream media and governments
3) How to fight modern wars and
4) How to put in place democratic processes to elect actual leaders rather than the clueless people controlling their lives to the everyday comic relief of this blogger.
but wat can we do, this is how things are, the boil is there, the eyesore is there and so on.
having pics ridiculing arabs, overdoing the sympathy vote and general ridiculing of people isnt gonna do much for the zionists.
i mean, lets face it, zionists literally uprooted a whole bunch of people. this scenes in the settlements were happening during the birth of israel. arabs were also being evacuated from their homeleands.
so I dont see how the jews in israel deserve so much sympathy, the sympathy shld go more twds the parents, kids, etc who witness caterpillars crushing their fields and houses.
people shld think abt why youngsters are literally blowing themselves up?
what drove them to do such a thing?
- the arabs must really be feeling helpless and lost to do such things.
come on, lets put things in perspective.
the evacuation is part of a small tiny strip of land, no biggie. you screw people out of their homes, it will come back to haunt you.
the jews in israel are holding and i believe intend to hold on to the bigger occupied lands.
so far, jews have been well off due to the sympathy generated by german actions during wwII, but a lot more people are getting disgusted at the actions of zionists nazis who kill and maim peole and steal their lands.
come on, why dont the jews and arabs work together,
accusations and ridiculing just reinforce hate and only disrupts a reconciliation between the two peoples.
It does not say much for the average zionist when he keeps pretending to be the victim while away from most media and govt spotlights he is crushing and ridiculing people.
and it shows a serious lack of maturity and an unhealthy venomous hate mindset for this blogger to keep spewing so much negative and perverse stereotypes abt arabs.
It just turns off people who were initially sympathetic to you.
as once we start to rake thru the media hyperbole and propaganda, the zionist cause stinks as little more than the subjugation and extermination of a whole group of peoples.
Dave,
Do us all a favor and put this ignorant, heathen, troll on mute…
Ahhhhhhh, thanks!
The little palestinian girl was working with terrorists and in a closed military zone! She did not stop when soldiers reapeatedly told her to in both Hebrew and Arabic!
By the sounds of it… you’re a Brit, right? You might want to check out what’s going on in London… You’re little country is on the same Islamic terrorist’s target yet… you guys just haven’t figured it out yet.
And… talk about killing innocent people? How about the innocent Brazilian tourist who was shot 5 times in the head by British, plainclothes cops, because he was a “suspect”???!!!
You can pick and chose your stories but if you’re a biased, anti-Israel kinda person… you’re bound to find the stories that suit your hatred.
Let’s start with #4, ben:
First off, I’d like to remind you that happend about year ago, while the palis keep doing their thing every day.
But the thing that you failed to mention, that appears in that article, was that the soldier was judged and sentenced to prison,
Unlike the palestinian ‘goverment’ that gives out candy to anyone who kills ‘em rotten jews.
The man was insane and he is now behind bars, what else do you want?
And now for jaik:
Well, I’m really not sure what to say.
Nah, there are enough reasons to fight about, and the arabs wouldn’t overlook any of them.
Great idea, why don’t you go there first, tell us how it is.
Bingo.
It seems like they already know that pretty well actually, the sickest event I can think of was when the palis faked funerals so they would have something to show to the media.
That’s by far one of the lowest thing any man can do, but it was pretty funny when you saw heads rise up from the caskets…
Yeah. sure, the media just LOVES Israel.
Every time something happens the media will do it’s best to twist it and make the terrorists look like the victims.
If that’s not a jewish controlled media I don’t know what is.
Well, the war skill is something you just naturally aquire after the numoerous times *certain* countrys attack you.
Once again, bingo.
Jaik,
Your second message, and any subsequent messages will be deleted, as well as all of your IP addresses blocked. Your comments reveal you to be a rabid anti-Semite, and a completely unintelligent moron whose opinion to me is totally insignificant. Go annoy someone else, loser.
To everyone claiming it was OK to shoot the school-girl down, or that the soldier had been punished for that:
> …just know that crying, praying, discussing,
> and protesting are all our responses to
> perceived injustice. Shooting and blowing
> up innocent people are not.
This was the claim of the article. So I took just one example, where an innocent, 13-years-old girl was shot down by your Soldiers. This is all I need to prove that the claim was false.
In fact many, many innocent people who are not terrorists are shot down by your soldiers, and of course it happens most time, because they try to blow up a bad guy. Nevertheless many innocent people and children are dying too, when you blow up the bad guys with rockets. As long as you deny this, and some other things too, you will not solve the problem.
And by the way, the policemen in London behaved wrong, and the “shoot-to-kill”-policy is wrong. If you are not in an open war between two nations, it is always wrong to accept the dead of innocent people as a sacrifice for fighting some bad guys. Britain is not at open war with another nation, so shooting the innocent Brazilian guy was very wrong indeed. As shooting innocent Palestines is, too.
Ben,
I don’t know if you are being deliberately disingenuous or not, but taking very isolated examples of an innocent person being killed in suspicious circumstances by an IDF soldier is not the same as the SYSTEMATIC MURDER of innocent Israelis at the hands of PLO Arabs. In the latter case, it is a strategy they have employed to correct a perceived injustice (i.e. the establishment of the state of Israel). In terms of systematic strategies on the part of the Israeli settlers who also perceive an injustice, their strategy in the main part is passive resistance, accompanied by praying and crying. They are not bombing up and shooting PLO Arabs, nor the IDF.
I think my point was an obvious one. If not, it should be now.
Ben, thank you for your “balanced” and “informed” response… do you by any chance watch the BBC regularly??? CNN??? Hmmm.
I said it once and it certainly holds true:
If you’re a biased, anti-Israel kinda person… you’re bound to find the stories that suit your hatred.
Well, David and Rix, there are some things to say about this:
1.)
Rix, your opinion seems to be very biassed. I just marked a wrong claim. Some of your people actually *do* shoot at innocent people. Since the claim was that they don’t, I needed only one example to prove the opposite. You don’t like that? Then just don’t make up false assertions.
Talking rubbish about my reputation or motivation will not help you here.
2.)
The same applies to you, David. One of the main problems in the middle east is that both sides have a total lack of sympathy for the justified claims of each other and that both behave as if they were only victims and never offenders. You are completely right, isolated examples of an innocent person being killed in suspicious circumstances by an IDF soldier are indeed not the same as the systematic murder of innocent Israelis at the hands of terorists.
But this was not the question. The claim was that there are no innocent Palestines blown up and shoot down by IDF soldiers or Israelic terrorists, but there are many of them. Just as we discuss the issue, we have another three dead palestines, innocent, but nevertheless shot down by a fanatic settler for revenge. So it is not possible for the palestines too, to live in peace, even if they are innocent.
The truth is that most of the palestines are as passive as your settlers are. Most of them are *not* terrorists, they do not bomb and shoot away other people, just as most your settlers. Many of them are strong with their mouth, also just as your settlers, and it is good that they are only that. They want to live in peace, without poverty and repression, just as your settlers want.
As long as you are not willing to accept a fair compromise, and give plenty of rope to those people who don’t fight you, there is no chance for peace at all. The first step to peace would be that people like you realize that not only Israelis are victims of horrendous blood deeds.
If you do not accept this, just one question, what would be an alternative? Expelling the Palestines? Shooting them down, all of them? Maybe a full annexiation of their living areas? Or continuing for another hundred years of occupation, denying them elementar civil rights? Or maybe a system of apartheid, where you leave them some small and worthless home lands, while most of them live without any civil rights in an annexed territory? What should the solution be, in your opinion?
Let’s face it, each of the alternatives above would turn you into iniquitous monsters and your free democracy into a rogue nation.
See, I am from Europe. Most of us are not really interested in the middle east, many say that erveryone down there is crazy and that both sides should shoot down each other, so things would be settled after this.
My opinion is another one: I think that this conflict is the main seed for many waves of terrorism from the arab world. I want to see a democratic Palestine nation to show that democracy and peace negotiations even between arch-enemies are possible. I want to see a solution of the conflict and an arab lighttower of democracy.
I want to see a solution where at the end two free and democratic nations should exist, one in Palestine, one in Israel. In fact the only way to this solution will be that Israel gives up the occupied territories and the palestines accept values like democracy, human rights, women’s rights and especially the right of the Israelic nation to exist.
This are hard issues for both sides, because many of them are both biassed and ideologic fanatics. But, if it happens, Europe and America will be willing to spend both sides a huge yearly amount of money to finance this peace. Lets face it, we are talking about
just 10 million people, generating a huge amount of problems with their conflict.
30 billion dollars each year and for each side shoudn’t be a big problem. This would be just a minor share of our defense and security budgets and may be on the long run the best defense budget investment, our countries can do at all. I would be glad to pay my share for such an investment and your both countries would both become very rich and prosperous.
People who live not in desperation are no easy recruits for fanatics and so beside from some single extremists things would calm down after some decades at least. This is my idea for a peace solution – it may be not perfect, but it is better then continuing the status quo.
Actually, that was not the claim at all. Read my post again since you are clearly having trouble understanding it. My post was dealing with the settler’s peaceful response to a perceived injustice (in comparison to the PLO Arab terrorists’ response to a perceived injustice). A very simply point, one which you are obfuscating.
And yes, I am aware that there was a terror attack today. But there is no doubt that this is not the general response, or tactic of choice. In the case of the PLO Arabs, it is.
By the way, you claim that there are MANY incidences of Israel soldiers or terrorists deliberately killing PLO Arabs. I bet you can’t even list 10 such confirmed incidences. I can easily list at least 100 such incidences on the PLO Arab side.
David, I do not talk about your comment, but about the article itself. And there you said, word by word:
“crying, praying, discussing, and
protesting are all our responses to
perceived injustice. Shooting and
blowing up innocent people are not.”
Nothing about “we don’t kill them systematic and you do”, you just claimed, that there are no innocent people shot down by fanatic settlers, and in fact there are.
As you already mentioned, today several innocent Palestines were shot down by an extremist as a revenge for Gaza. But, of course
“crying, praying, discussing, and
protesting are all our responses to
perceived injustice. Shooting and
blowing up innocent people are not.”
Please go to their families and explain this. Regardless wether this is a tactic or not, there are innocent people who are shot down, so your sentence above is wrong. That’s all.
By the way, what is your statement? That killing innocent people is OK, if it happens only occasional and not systematic?
For your numbers: according to Brigadier-General Shmuel Zakai at least 12 civilians had been killed alone during the so called “operation rainbow”. This twelve people are more than enough incidences to prove that something is going very wrong there.
Ben, I think it’s impossible for most people to even comprehend what is REALLY going on here. The situation is far beyond what is reported in the world media and you hit the nail on the head with your insight:
This media circus is about as sesitive as coverage of the Superbowl… however Israel is a Westernized, modern country. The people you see being dragged from their homes are doctors, lawyers, farmers, teachers… you name it…. people who raise families, drive mini-vans, and pay taxes. Zionists.
Which brings me back to what you said….
Reminds me of how the Islamic terrorists blame the “Zionist Enemy” for every world disaster, plane crash, tsunami, 9-11… you name it! That also brings back sentiments voiced by the Nazi regime… blaming “the Jews” for everything wrong in the world. It sounds like blatant hatred whether you’re willing to admit it or not.
The fact that you’re holding up this dialogue… in a civil matter tells me that you’re not some raving anti-Jewish lunatic and some part of you is truly interested in seeing a peaceful outcome in the Middle-East however I am sure that you are both ill-informed and biased about the true situation. Perhaps you should open your eyes to the true situation here. Realize just who we’re dealing with… the PLO cannot be compared to the IRA… or any civilized group of people. They are entirely lead and governed by terrorist-killers… the same people who want you and me dead.
Ben,
Hm…
Let us get something straight. I am appalled when a truly innocent person dies.
But that this increasingly rare on the Palestinian side. Generally, these “innocent, murdered kids” are teens, who intentionally put themselves in the line of fire of Israeli soldiers, i.e. choosing to get in the car with a wanted man to act as shields.
Innocent people have died on the Palestinian side- and again, I am appalled when that occurs. But a lot more innocent Israelis are killed.
In short:
If you associate yourself and assist terrorists and other evildoers engaging in murder and wholesale murder of an innocent people, you are guilty by association, even if you don’t actually pull the proverbial trigger.
However, again, if an Israeli soldier unprovokedly harms a person, whether they are Israeli, Palestinian, Jewish, Arab, a child, an adult or elderly, I will be appalled.
You let me know when that happens.
Guys, whatever you say, I saw the pictures and heard the news of the last few days. Several people died by attacs of a fanatic settler. Even several soldiers had been attacked by some of the settlers. This showed evidently, that many settlers are not normal, “peaceful” people, but very dangerous.
Do you have any fair and balanced solution both sides can live with? If not, your country will continue to live in a permanent status near to civil war for the next fifty years, regardless who is more fanatic. Or, as an alternative, your country will turn into something really bad and evil, not being “cool” at all.
I am, as I already said, willing to support a peac gladly with some of my taxes, and I know that many people think so. Since a compromise would lead to measures and losses which will hurt for both sides, many people will be willing to give your two small nations the ressources they need to prosper and stay as an example, that reconciliation, peace and democracy are possible.
“This showed evidently, that many settlers are not normal, “peaceful” people, but very dangerous”
————————————————————
AH! A few isolated incidents and you say this!? Words can not express my rage.
I DO NOT condone any act of violence. If a belligerent settler decides to kill an innocent person, Palestinian or IDF, it is murder. No two ways ’bout it. If the afforementioned person assaults someone , I do not condone it.
BUT!
THE ACTIONS OF A FEW DO NOT CONSTITUE SAYING THAT “MANY SETTLERS ARE VERY DANGEROUS”!
YOU DO KNOW THAT MANY SETTLERS LEFT ON THEIR OWN WHEN THEY WERE INSTRUCTED TO! OTHERS WERE LIFTED OUT OF THEIR LIFELONG HOMES BY SOBBING IDF SOLDIERS! HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE PICTURES!? HAVE SOME SYMPATHY! MOST SETTLERs, 99.99% of THESE SETTLERS WENT PEACEFULLY, THOUGH EITHER IN TEARS OR ALMOST CRYING!
AND TO SAY BECAUSE OF A FEW, ISOLATED (but certainly not condonable) INCIDENTS OF HATE CRIMEs, THAT “MOST” settlers are “Very dangerous” IS HORRIFIC AND RIDICULOUS!
THINK ABOUT THIS, FOOL!
“This showed evidently, that many settlers are not normal, “peaceful” people, but very dangerous”
————————————————————
AH! A few isolated incidents and you say this!? Words can not express my rage.
I DO NOT condone any act of violence. If a belligerent settler decides to kill an innocent person, Palestinian or IDF, it is murder. No two ways ’bout it. If the afforementioned person assaults someone , I do not condone it.
BUT!
THE ACTIONS OF A FEW DO NOT CONSTITUE SAYING THAT “MANY SETTLERS ARE VERY DANGEROUS”!
YOU DO KNOW THAT MANY SETTLERS LEFT ON THEIR OWN WHEN THEY WERE INSTRUCTED TO! OTHERS WERE LIFTED OUT OF THEIR LIFELONG HOMES BY SOBBING IDF SOLDIERS! HAVE YOU SEEN THOSE PICTURES!? HAVE SOME SYMPATHY! MOST SETTLERs, 99.99% of THESE SETTLERS WENT PEACEFULLY, THOUGH EITHER IN TEARS OR ALMOST CRYING!
AND TO SAY BECAUSE OF A FEW, ISOLATED (but certainly not condonable) INCIDENTS OF HATE CRIMEs, THAT “MOST” settlers are “Very dangerous” IS HORRIFIC AND RIDICULOUS!
THINK ABOUT THIS, FOOL!
I apologize for the double post. My computer is going nuts.
Digital Ranter, calm down. And stop putting words in my mouth I never used. I said *many* settlers are dangerous, not *most*. That’s quite a difference. Nevertheless I saw enough to know that their fanatism will be a huge problem.
And please be so kind to stop insulting and screaming. Instead you should try to think about some fair and balanced solutions for the conflict. The good news is, that at all, the government made a first step forward to a long-term solution.
What will happen next week when Sa Nur and Homesh are evacuated. Will those settlers go quietly?
I said many, up until that last time, which was merely a typographical error. At any rate:
Saying that “many” settlers are very dangerous because of a few, isolated (but I reiterate: NOT CONDONABLE) incidents is ridiculous and then some.
As for yelling:
I said my computer was going nuts. The CAPSLOCK was kinda bonkers.
Please consider this, Ben.
Ben,
I am back for more! I am afraid I can’t let your ignorance continue.
————————————-
“If you do not accept this, just one question, what would be an alternative? Expelling the Palestines? Shooting them down, all of them? Maybe a full annexiation of their living areas? Or continuing for another hundred years of occupation, denying them elementar civil rights? Or maybe a system of apartheid, where you leave them some small and worthless home lands, while most of them live without any civil rights in an annexed territory? What should the solution be, in your opinion?”-Ben
———————————————————————
Lets rip that apart, shall we?
1)Expelling Palestinians.
Lets get something straight. I want pecae for Israel. And Israel is NOT going to expel the Palestinians. On an interesting note:
They were refugees before Israel. All of the arab countries neglected them. This was not in anyway caused by Israel. Honestly, they are doing better than when they were in Jordan.
2)Shooting them.
Ugh. This doesn’t even constitute a response, it is just rambling. Nobody is going to do that, not the Israelis, not anybody.
3)A “full annexation of their living area”
You’ll notice I bolded that to make a point. It is not annexation- Israel was unprovokedly attacked (on many occasions) and in one conflict, they claimed land from their assailant. When you attack someone and you lose… I mean… it’s war! In war, land is taken. Nobody would complain if Jordan had taken Israel. Thus, it is not annexation. They were attacked, and they won. Plain and simple. That’s how the land became Israels, and it is rightfully so. If, like the Sinai Pennisula, something can be worked out to return it to it’s rightful owner, so be it. But is Israel is in NO WAY obliged to do that.
4)A hundred years of occupation
See above (3).
5) Again with the annexed territory.
See (3).
As for denying them civil rights…
Look at the Arabs who live in Israel. They have good lives, full rights and seats in parliament! Their civil rights are not being denied- if you are referring to the Wall, that is Israel defending itself. The Palestinians (not all of course) set themselves up to fail. Remember President Clinton? Yasser Arafat got 99% of what he originally asked for and refused to sign the treaty! It’s Israel’s land- they were being very kind!
I await your comment.
Pardon me. I made an error.
The 1967 war was started when several Arbaian countries placed troops in position to assault is Israel. Israel preemptively struck. Nonetheless, they had attacked Israel before (with Israel NOT preemptively striking due to a threat), and it was evident they were planning an attack.
My point remains valid.