Yo Mob, Stop Hating the Playa
Aussie Dave | Aug 24, 2005 | 12 comments
Mobius aka Orthodox Anarchist aka Dan is a bit peeved.
I got interviewed for this piece but apparently didn’t make it in. A little upsetting that the author chose a bunch of extremist right-wingers to represent the Israeli viewpoint in his list of links. Not every Israeli is an Arab-hating, pro-settlement lunatic. In fact, most aren’t.
If you view the article, you will notice that there are 4 blogs in the links at the end representing the Israeli side – LGF, Israpundit, Katif.net, and yours truly.
Needless to say, I am not at all pleased at Mobius’ characterization of me as a “an Arab-hating, pro-settlement lunatic.” Hence this post.
Anyone who bothers to read my posts and listen to my podcast will understand that I am far from an Arab-hater. True, I oppose terrorism, and do not believe that the PLO Arabs were ever a distinct nation of people. But I am always careful to avoid painting all Arabs (and PLO Arabs) with the same brush, and support a peaceful resolution to the conflict. I speak harshly against terrorism perpetrated by Jews, as I do about Islamic terrorism (it just so happens that the former is a very rare occurrence, and the latter has been frequent).
In addition, I justify my views with facts, and carefully explain where I am coming from. I think it is clear to the informed and intelligent reader that I am far from being an Arab hater. This is reinforced by the fact that I am linked to by a number of Muslim and Arab bloggers, such as Healing Iraq, Mahmood, and Rafah Pundits. And I have corresponded with many more in a very civil, and even friendly, manner.
As for being a “pro-settlement” lunatic, I surely do support the communities in the disputed territories, but why this makes me a lunatic is beyond me. Again, I base my views on historical, moral, and practical considerations.
I dunno. If I was Mobius, I wouldn’t be bandying around the word “lunatic.” After all, when it comes to shrill, baseless, and even incoherent rants, he surpasses me.
dear bitches…take your drama and shove it up your cooter. i’m going morrisey.[update] do you know what i hate? life.
Ok, that’s a mild example. This is what I’m talking about:
what’s going on right now is painful. i feel for the families yet find it difficult to fathom their shock and suprise as it’s been shown in the news. this has been a year in the coming; they’re acting like they didn’t believe the day would come. their disbelief is staggering. israel’s been terrorizing arabs, knocking down their houses, razing their villages, suppressing their rights, brutalizing and dehumanizing them for decades. they didn’t think the government would do the same to them when they they no longer served the government’s interests? “first they came for the arabs, but i wasn’t an arab… so i didn’t speak up. then they came for me…” if you know the story of the mizrachi in this country (like, for example, the cia-sponsored mengelesque human experiments they conducted in ’48; or the dumping of “human cattle” in negev development towns), it’s hard to be surprised at anything. the zionists have never cared about humanity. they went around the world inciting communities against their jewish populations in order to influence their emigration. they’re doing the same in france and the fsu right now, while using their influence to place immigration controls on germany to prevent jewish immigration from the fsu. that the israeli government would abuse its own citizens in terms of advancing its agenda is a given, not a shock and suprise. not to mention, no rational person believed for a second after 67 that we were going to keep those territories. they were bargaining chips, and the settlers we’re just upping the ante.on a practical level, i don’t think sharon’s doing this because he wants to. i think it’s an inherently undemocratic move which sharon is levying only to appease the left-wing prosecutors who are trying to skewer him for corruption. and as dov weisglass noted in haaretz last summer, he’s also going to use it as a justification to hold onto as much of the west bank as he can. even as he’s withdrawing from gaza he’s expanding settlements in the west bank and the i.l.a. is offering incentives to build new settlements outside of jericho. it’s ultimately going to do no more than serve as a further incitement for palestinians who think that their violence has succeeded in driving back the zionist entity. this will just lead to more bloodshed, which will now be brought closer to israel’s major population centers. you’ve already got hamas rallying, proclaiming the success of their violence, and abbas is in the press saying the fight isn’t over until israel returns to the ’48 armistice lines. as if israel’s going to hand talpiyot and gilo back… puh-friggin’-lease. this isn’t a move towards peace; this is a move towards desperation — a last ditch attempt to keep maale adumim, ariel and gush etzion intact, and to evade the ever-growing certitude that israel is overseeing an apartheid regime in the territories. if the west bank crumbles, that’s the end of the zionist enterprise. once israel can be justly branded an apartheid state, you can be sure maale adumim will be flying the red, white, black and green in due time. so he’s trying to skirt this scenario by saying, “oooh look how hard it was to pull just 1500 families out of gaza. we couldn’t possibly pull out of maale adumim…” but now he’s setting the precedent which makes it possible for that demand to be placed on israel.these would, of course, be my concerns were i a jewish nationalist. but i’m not. i’m an anti-nationalist and a spiritual & cultural zionist. thus, ultimately i oppose the disengagement because i believe in a bi-national “non-state” (an anarchist confederation) comprised of self-governing autonomous communities of affinity and believe that jews should be allowed to the live in the shtakhim and arabs within “israel proper” side-by-side, under their own independent rule. i’d support the right of gaza’s residents to continue in their presence there, however, the orange brigade (which is being coordinated by gamla and yesha — both of which are entities adhering to kahanist ideology, even if they vehemently deny it), is perpetuating a worldview which says that if anyone should go, it should be the arabs, and thus i can’t support them. either you’re for people’s right to live where they want — not just jews — or you’re an ethnocentric fascist and a racial supremacist who believes only your people have a right to live where they want. if it’s the latter, you can f**k right off.
Nazism. Nazi experiments. Apartheid. Not caring about humanity. All “settlers” adhering to a Kahanist ideology. Besides the vitriolic nature of these comments, they are 100% BS. He even had to resort to quoting whackjob Barry Chamish to validate his view (see the comments).
I gave up on refuting Mobius’ posts a while ago when it became obvious that any expression of disagreement with his views was treated as an ad hominem attack. And I’m not interested in starting an online flame war with him. But when I am accused of being an Arab-hating, pro-settlement lunatic – even via a direct implication – I will react.
You wouldn’t expect anything less from me.
Mobius aka Orthodox Anarchist aka Dan is a bit peeved.
I got interviewed for this piece but apparently didn’t make it in. A little upsetting that the author chose a bunch of extremist right-wingers to represent the Israeli viewpoint in his list of links. Not every Israeli is an Arab-hating, pro-settlement lunatic. In fact, most aren’t.
If you view the article, you will notice that there 4 blogs in the links at the end representing the Israeli side – LGF, Israpundit, Katif.net, and yours truly.
Needless to say, I am not at all pleased at Mobius’ characterization of me as a “an Arab-hating, pro-settlement lunatic.” Hence this post.
About the Author
An Australian immigrant to Israel, Aussie Dave has been blogging since early 2003.Filed Under: General
He was way out of line… I’ve never heard you say you were pro-settlement!
i never mentioned nazis; but while we’re on the subject, the zionists did ally with the nazis when it was convenient to their purposes:
http://www.transferagreement.com/
as per mengelesque experiments — i didn’t want to use the barry chamish link and i thought i made that clear. it was the only link in english i could find however. here’s plenty on the subject in hebrew:
http://rotter.net/forum/gil/5074.shtml
you might also stand to gain from learning about the israeli black panther movement:
http://www.kedma.co.il/Panterim/PanterimTheMovie/EnglishArticles.htm
apartheid: former head of the american jewish congress henry siegman, a senior fellow at the counil on foreign relations, can say it, but i can’t?
http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=7265
i didn’t say all settlers were kahanists. i said the people who were behind the anti-disengagement movement — the people who manufactured the orange bracelets, the “yehudi lo migaresh yehudi” stickers, the orange t-shirts, etc. were kahanists.
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/index.htm
flip over the orange bracelet. what does it say inside? gamla.org. which gamla? this gamla:
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/article/2002/july/b1e.htm
finally — as per the “incoherent rant” you cited above… entirely out of context and without a frame of reference. eat me.
No, you just said “mengelesque human experiments”. Please, don’t insult our intelligence.
In other words, you are responding by saying “I never mentioned nazis but speaking of which, now I will..” Not the best comeback I have ever seen.
By the way, the Transfer Agreement link you provided shows that the Zionists made a pact with the Nazis..in order to save lives. Maybe not everyone would agree it was the “right” choice (G-d forbid that any of us would be faced with such a dilemna), but it only goes to show that the Zionists wanted to save lives. As I see on the site:
Regarding the Hebrew link, why don’t you enlighten everyone as to what the article says in English? I know from your blog that your Hebrew skills are not fantastic. I would hate to think you are posting something you can’t even translate.
And if I saw his article, I may have rebuttd it as well. But I read your post. And it is perfectly fine that you express your view. Just like it is perfectly fine that I respond to it.
You kiss your mama with that mouth?
My boyfriend’s grandfather was part of the envoy team from Palestine that had to deal with Eichmann in the 40′s.
A very controversial deal, which was to save thousands of Jews by bringing them to Palestine instead of on the trains to Auschwitz-Birkenau, in exchange for the promise of not pursuing Eichmann after the war was over. He knew the end was nearing and that one day the situation would turn over and was trying to save his ass.
It was incredibly controversial at the time, how could anyone even think of “collaborating” with a Nazi, promising him freedom without prosecution after the war? But it was for saving Jews, for saving lives. It even says it in Auschwitz now, he who saves the life of one, it is like he saved the world entire, so how could this mishlahat not jump on the oppotunity to save those thousands of Jews?
The deal didn’t come through (His grandfather wrote a book about it actually, I can’t remember the name of it, should be findable with the author’s name, Dov Tsachor, though I didn’t find it on ibooks.co.il) and the Jews concerned were sent to their horrible fates.
Had the deal worked, I don’t know what people would have thought of afterwards. Would they have cared that peoples’ lives were saved? Or would they have been bitter than they cannot prosecute Eichmann, as was finally done? There would have never been the Eichmann trial if this deal had gone through. As it was, this mishlahat’s testimony in the trial was of incredible importance, since it showed his level of involvement, and that he knew the consequences of sending the Jews to their final destination, rather than, as he continually said, “just following orders, didn’t know what would happen to Jews after they got off the trains”.
That’s not Jews allying with Nazis. That’s Jews trying to make the best out of a horrible situation and being blackmailed into having two choose the lesser of two evils.
dave, don’t pull one piece of text from the website and think you know the story. i’ve read the whole book. they saved 50,000 people who were capable of hard labor when they could’ve thrown their power behind the boycott movement and prevented the entire shoah saving 6 million. the 200 million was also embezzled by jewish banks and businessmen which is what the whole banking/survivor’s money scandal here in israel is all about right now.
you know what’s really cute dave, that instead of actually dealing with the fact that you’re wrong in the case of the radiation experiments the israeli government conducted on mizrahi immigrants, you’re going to attack me again. this is why you’re a cock.
see dave, you said everything i’ve said is 100% bullshit, but i’ve shown clearly that it’s not. so when you reduce me to a shrill, incoherent, vitriolic lunatic, you’re doing so out of your own ignorance and have no grounds to actually defend your position, whereas i have what to defend mine.
if you don’t want me calling you a cock, don’t be one.
anyway, harry and i are organizing a blog meetup for next month. maybe you’ll finally have a chance to meet me and the false impression you have of me in your head will finally be eradicated.
v’ahavta l’rekha kamokha beyotch!
Mobius,
Please do not put words into my mouth. I have never said that everything you’ve said is 100% BS. Only some of it is. For example, when you started the jooglebomb, I publicly applauded the idea and supported it.
The point about the Hebrew article you provided is that you are using it as your source, and I know from your blog that you have trouble translating Hebrew. So I am curious as to whether you read the article in its entirety.
By the way, I do not subscribe to the view that everything the Israeli government has done, is doing, or even will do, is correct. It is ok to criticize them. I just think people like you go way overboard.
As for calling me a c*ck, I don’ see how it fits in with your final quote v’ahavta l’rekha kamokha beyotch (love your brother as you love yourself). But feel free to say it to my face at the blog meetup. Just don’t be surprised at my response. If, however, you decide to be a mensch at the meetup, I am sure we will be able to have a thoughtful discussion.
How could anyone in 1933 even fathom a fraction of the atrocities about to land the Jews of Europe? How can you now, 70 years later, decide that their boycott WOULD have prevented the shoah? Just because everyone thought Jews ruled the world doesn’t actually make it so. I personally doubt their boycott would have had any effect whatsoever, the Jews probably knew that too, and used to their advantage the fact that Germans thought they had that kind of power and were willing to give it up to save lives. The entire concept of the Holocaust and the German propaganda actually working was because no one liked the Jews anyway. What could a Jewish boycott have changed in that?
YOU say that 50,000 people were saved but because of that 6 million were killed. Not that there’s any basis to that, but there’s not much basis to what I’m about to say either, other than common sense. If they hadn’t been saved, they would have been killed later with the other 6 million.
Sad that you don’t think that saving 50,000 people is commendable. As I said before with the Eichmann deal, will people remember what was gained, or just what was given up?
micol, read the book. and dave, was that a threat? *chuckle* you amuse me.
Just a hint that I don’t take kindly to people who act like jerks to my face.
I have much more patience online, as I am sure my readers will see from our “conversation.”
I might if i have the occasion, the comments on amazon.com about the book are very encouraging.
But I insist, hindsight 70 years later is easy. No one in 1933 could have imagined the importance of toppling Hitler’s regime. Please feel free to ignore this as you already have.
uh, are you going to tell me that no one had read mein kampf and knew what hitler’s agenda was?
Chamish is a UFO nut job with intimate ties to Neo-Nazis and Holocaust Deniers (see http://www.barry-chamish.com). He is a pathetic liar, who lies about everything. Nothing he says is credible.