While we’re debating over the destruction of a few synagogues our enemies are putting crosshairs on Jerusalem and Tel Aviv…

While Sharon fights for political survival does anyone believe that any progress will be made for the good of our country??!! The only true change that came from the Disengagement is the fact that our enemy has become stronger once again and we are the only ones to blame. We handed them a great victory and they won’t stop until each and every one of us has been dragged from our homes and blown to bits and blood.

How many times will history repeat itself before we Jews get a grip on reality??!!

I’m glad u don’t paint all of us with the same brush, and I certainly don’t paint my non-orthodox brethren with the same brush either. Heck, I am not much of a painter!

Thanks for your response. I certainly don’t paint all Orthodox Jews with the same brush. While Orthodoxy is not for me (and never will be), I recognize that the vast majority of Orthodox Jews are genuine in their love for Torah, their love for G-d, and their love for their fellow humans. I certainly respect that.

Let’s try not to use the term “authentic Judaism,” however. That’s incredibly insulting to those of us who are non-Orthodox Jews, as it implies that our Judaism is not authentic.

Eric

First to attitude- The whole “Charley what part of……don’t you understand is condescending. The phrase “don’t get your shorts in a bunch” is one I learned in the midwest. It means relax. So while you may not have intended it your replies when read by me came off as snotty. Especially when you wrongly accused him of saying negative stuff about Dave or Israellycool among other things.

Getting past that I honestly want to know how if the buildings are sacred- and I am going with what you have said- that they are sacred- How could we knowingly leave them in the hands of someone who we know will desecrate them?

So far the firing range has not changed. It probably will but that will be due to better technology not how close they can get. But that’s a whole other discussion.

In any case I apologize for any offense on my part.

Carol

Who said anything about 2 or 3 wise sages? And yes, there are Rabbis who have enough knowledge and insight to interpret the law. But if you mean by “interpret” to just go ahead and change it, then this is not correct. However, very learned modern day Rabbis are able to interpret the law as it applies to modern circumstances. (This is different, though, to CHANGING the law at a whim).

Regarding homosexuality, just b/c some Orthodox Jews behave badly towards gay people, does not mean that this is the halachic position. From my understanding, while homosexual acts are forbidden, we still have to treat our fellow humans as equals. You can look down on someone’s sin, without looking down on the sinner (Christians have a similar saying I think). In fact, I heard that in Kabbalistic thought, there is a recognition that some people can have souls of the opposite sex (if I am not mistaken).

It sounds to me that you are generalizing about authentic Judaism on the basis of the acts or attitudes of some, coupled with some ignorance of it. If you want to know more, I can recommend some good sites for you, with people far more eloquent and articulate than I am on the subject.

I won’t reopen that — but I have one question. Dave, and David, do you really think that G-d gave the wisdom to write and interpret laws to just a generation or two or three of “wise sages”??

Why are there no longer “wise sages” able to interpret the law?? Do you really think that G-d would intend that just a limited few humans would be allowed to interpret the law; and that after they died, the law would be inflexible for the remaining millennia of human existence??

The “sages” were just human beings, like us. Now, I certainly don’t claim to be a wise, learned sage. But I’m open to the possibility that there are 21st Century humans capable of providing insight and interpretation into Jewish law.

I don’t believe that the only humans capable of interpreting Jewish laws to G-d’s satisfaction died out thousands of years ago. I simply don’t believe that G-d would be so shortsighted.

As a Selichot program last night, our shul held a screening of the documentary “Trembling Before G-d.” If you’re not familiar with this film, it looks at the struggles faced by Orthodox Jews who are also homosexual.

This film underscored the fact that for many Orthodox Jews, the literal words of the Torah take precedence over treating people decently. I don’t believe that’s what G-d intended; I don’t believe G-d wants gay and lesbian Jews to be shunned by their families, driven from their synagogues, told that they should be stoned to death.

And please don’t quote Leviticus to me. I know that it calls male homosexuality “to’evah,” an “abomination.” Of course, in Deuteronomy 14:4, eating trayf foods is also called to’evah. Yet I don’t see many shuls, even Orthodox ones, shunning people for having a cheeseburger now and then. (And, of course, the Torah says NOTHING at all about female homosexuality. Not one single word.)

Phew. Way off topic here. But all of this literalism above common sense and treating people with decency explains why I’m not Orthodox, I suppose. I wasn’t fundamentalist in my Christian days, either.

Eric

I do not believe that there is a debate here as I am an observant Jew and I accept what the sages/rabbis have said. In fact, if it had been up to our rabbis, none of the settlers (that Charley so dislikes) would be homeless right now, synagogues would not have been burned and turned into Hamas shrines, and the entire Negev would not be in firing rage of neo-pal missile attacks….

Shorts bunched up? Snotty? Carol, this is not the type of dialogue that I would call “therapeutic”…. however I do agree that having the oportunity to discuss and debate opposing sides of the issues can only bring us Jews closer…

I was not aware of any Rabbi okaying the destruction of synagogues at the hands of the IDF. I know that they ended up agreeing that some of the temporary ones could be taken down. The only justification for this could be if the synagogues were immediately sold to a non-Jew, but I somehow don’t see the neo Pals buying them.

Regarding sages, we have to realize that these men were alot smarter and wiser than we are. And yes, they were human. But G-d knew that when he gave them the authority to interpret scripture and enact laws.

Criticizing Orthodox Judaism doesn’t make you anti religious. Comments against settlers don’t make you anti religious either. They make you anti settler. Eating treif is a personal choice that does not make you anti religious nor does it somehow reflect on the kind of person you are.

Charley never Israellycool or Dave whom he says is a really nice guy on the show so who is being ignorant and misquoting is what I find offensive.