Why is it considered right-wing not to subscribe to that definition?

Jihad of Umar

umarlee.blogspot.com

And I wonder whether these people have any explanation for why Jews living in (the Arab part of) Palestine need the army for protection while Arabs living in Israel do apparently not.

I have as much respect for Arabs who have to live next to Jews on “their” land as I have for Jews who have to live next to Arabs in Israel. And I have as much disrespect for Arabs attacking such Jews as I have for Jews attacking such Arabs.

Who on the Arab side of the argument can say the same thing?

Now on to my reply.

I happen to know some of the people involved with Arutz Sheva, who are anything but Arab-hating Kahanists.

good for you. of the half-dozen staff members at arutz sheva i’ve met, every one of them is a jewish supremacist. i had a lovely shabbat lunch with a handful of them in tzefat one afternoon during which they denigrated every israeli arab member of the idf.

This does not mean that the station is run by Kahanists. And while I condemn denigrating “every israeli arab member of the idf”, this alone does not render someone a “Kahanist.” These people do not necessarily advocate transfer, nor some of the other positions of Kahane. Unless you were privy to some other things they said, that lead you to believe this.

Regarding the comments about Noam Arnon, I ask Mobius whether he actually knows him well enough (or even at all) to paint him as someone not only incapable of conversing with palestinians, but also very capable of harming them. From what I have read online about Arnon, I have no basis to believe that he is as Mobius characterizes him. For instance, consider this statement by him I found in an interview.

“Here we want to live in peace. We, we want to live in peace with the Arabs here, and I’m sure most of the normal people in the world will support us.”

…and that’s why i chose to live in the mostly hotly contested piece of real estate in the middle east and use the force of the israeli army to secure my community which has a reputation for instigating conflict with our arab neighbors.

dave, it’s one thing to say, “come on mobius, you don’t know they guy, you can’t really just say that outright;” and another entirely to say “the people in hebron want peace.” the former is fair and something i can concede; the latter is intellectually dishonest bullsh*t. the people in hebron aren’t there for peace, they’re there to wage a holy war. and i have video of their community leaders like noam federman saying so. hell, the bat ayin bombers got their materials from kiryat arbah, and that’s on the public record as well. the hebron community is deeply tied to kfar tapuach. so telling the press they want peace is just their weasely way of blaming the arabs for the conflict. lest we forget that the arabs will say the same thing as they’re loading their weapons. just keep in mind who fired the first shot of this intifada: baruch goldstein of kiryat arbah.

People choose to live in Hebron out of religious conviction. Heck, it is in this week’s parsha that Avraham purchases the Cave of Machpelah! And we are talking about Noam Arnon, not Federman. I don’t doubt some of Hebron’s Jews want the Arabs out, but I also don’t doubt that many would be willing to live in peace with the Arabs, as long as the terror ends.

And perhaps the relationship between the Arab and Jewish communities of Hebron, goes beyond the simplistic “settler beats Arab” model that you advocate. Of course, you could also ask “Why in God’s name would Palestinians take up a grievance” by blowing themselves up. Logic does not always enter the equation.

you know, that’s true. sometimes it’s “arab shoots and kills settler’s baby.” either way, they’re not precisely on speaking terms.

You would be surprised what goes on behind the scenes. I am not suggesting that for sure this is the case here, but I know of other situations in which a cooperation between the Jews and Arabs was revealed. It is not SO far-fetched to me.

There is no denying that Arutz Sheva have an agenda – a worthwhile one at that. However, this fact alone doesn’t automatically negate the veracity of this story.

and that’s the rub of it. the whole issue here is “to what lengths of dishonesty are you willing to go in order for your side to win.” your answer is, “as far as it takes.”

That is putting words in my mouth. I might agree with much of what Arutz Sheva says, but I don’t think they should be in the business of fabricating or falsifying. For example, I took them to task months ago, when they suggested that the stoning of a palestinian youth was staged, based on photo evidence. After examining the evidence, I eventually concluded that it was NOT staged. I subsequently alerted Arutz Sheva as to my findings, and criticized them for not amending their report immediately.

the tel rumeida project isn’t ISM. it’s an independent group consisting of some ISM members and former ISM members. they aren’t under the jurisdiction of ISM.

Be that as it may, it doesn’t change anything. In your initial version of the post, the point of your claim that it was not the ISM in Hebron – but rather Christian and Quaker peaceniks over 30 – was to suggest that they are not the type to engage in the alleged lewd and immoral behavior. Now that you admit that an ISM splinter group is involved there, this point is no longer relevant.

I happen to know some of the people involved with Arutz Sheva, who are anything but Arab-hating Kahanists.

good for you. of the half-dozen staff members at arutz sheva i’ve met, every one of them is a jewish supremacist. i had a lovely shabbat lunch with a handful of them in tzefat one afternoon during which they denigrated every israeli arab member of the idf.

The story does not mention anything about getting the kids hooked on drugs nor wild sex orgies. This is merely hyperbole used by Mobius to make his point.

perhaps hyperbolic, yes. however lighter versions of these allegations are in the initial kol hair piece on which the arutz sheva story is based. further allegations include that a palestinian boy was raped by an ISMer. the source of these allegations is also addressed in my revised post.

Regarding the comments about Noam Arnon, I ask Mobius whether he actually knows him well enough (or even at all) to paint him as someone not only incapable of conversing with palestinians, but also very capable of harming them. From what I have read online about Arnon, I have no basis to believe that he is as Mobius characterizes him. For instance, consider this statement by him I found in an interview.

“Here we want to live in peace. We, we want to live in peace with the Arabs here, and I’m sure most of the normal people in the world will support us.”

…and that’s why i chose to live in the mostly hotly contested piece of real estate in the middle east and use the force of the israeli army to secure my community which has a reputation for instigating conflict with our arab neighbors.

dave, it’s one thing to say, “come on mobius, you don’t know they guy, you can’t really just say that outright;” and another entirely to say “the people in hebron want peace.” the former is fair and something i can concede; the latter is intellectually dishonest bullsh*t. the people in hebron aren’t there for peace, they’re there to wage a holy war. and i have video of their community leaders like noam federman saying so. hell, the bat ayin bombers got their materials from kiryat arbah, and that’s on the public record as well. the hebron community is deeply tied to kfar tapuach. so telling the press they want peace is just their weasely way of blaming the arabs for the conflict. lest we forget that the arabs will say the same thing as they’re loading their weapons. just keep in mind who fired the first shot of this intifada: baruch goldstein of kiryat arbah.

I can’t comment on Mobius’ conspiracy theory, except to say that it seems weird that Mobius would mention it in the context of conjecturizing that the palestinian interviewed by Kol Hair was mislead, yet in the next paragraph express the view that the whole interview was probably fabricated. Which is it?

i didn’t mean to suggest that the interview was fabricated. rather, just the stories that the palestinians were telling. and now i have confirmation that they were, and that all evidence to the contrary was left out of the kol hair article by the apparently biased “journalist.”

And perhaps the relationship between the Arab and Jewish communities of Hebron, goes beyond the simplistic “settler beats Arab” model that you advocate. Of course, you could also ask “Why in God’s name would Palestinians take up a grievance” by blowing themselves up. Logic does not always enter the equation.

you know, that’s true. sometimes it’s “arab shoots and kills settler’s baby.” either way, they’re not precisely on speaking terms.

There is no denying that Arutz Sheva have an agenda – a worthwhile one at that. However, this fact alone doesn’t automatically negate the veracity of this story.

and that’s the rub of it. the whole issue here is “to what lengths of dishonesty are you willing to go in order for your side to win.” your answer is, “as far as it takes.”

After posting this, I noticed that a commenter on Mobius’ blog confirmed that the ISM are indeed involved in Hebron

the tel rumeida project isn’t ISM. it’s an independent group consisting of some ISM members and former ISM members. they aren’t under the jurisdiction of ISM.

but again, i’ve revised the post heavily. as i stated yesterday, that was only what i knew so far. the picture is much clearer now.

on a final note, truly and sincerely: mazal tov on the birth and bris of your son.