Coulter Skelter Part Deux
';I must admit to being caught off guard by many of the comments to my recent post on Ann Coulter (although delighted it provoked so much intelligent discussion on this site). So much so, I am going to dedicate this post to clarifying a few things on the topic.
I am fully aware of Christian doctrine, and the belief that as a Jew, I need some “perfecting” (which flies in the face of what my Jewish mother has told me my whole life :)) I have never felt threatened by this, and I fully respect religious Christians, despite our theological differences. It comes from being very secure in my beliefs as a religious Jew.
What I found offensive about Coulter’s statements were the fact they made so flippantly on national television, to an audience Coulter must have known consisted of Jewish people. It was her lack of sensitivity, more than anything else, that caught me off guard.
I must admit to not being too familiar with Coulter before this incident, but she is apparently not known for her sensitivity. Nevertheless, I called it as I saw it, posting right after I viewed the video, and read the script.
And I regret my post.
Not because so many of you disagreed with me - that I can live with. And not because it attracted vile anti-Semitic comments (mostly from the one sad individual with a penchant for changing handles and obviously unaware I can check IP addresses). But watching the way people have tried to use her foolish comments for their own agendas. People whose own agendas are much more harmful to me and my family than anything Ann Coulter could ever say.
Of course, you could argue that this was entirely predictable, given that the anti-Conservative Media Matters were the ones who jumped on Coulter and passed on the video and script to people like me. And you are right. But at the time, I was not even thinking of this.
There was also something else at play here. Something I am not ready to talk about on here, but some recent news that has necessitated me having to come to terms with the mortality of a loved one. I have been thinking a lot of the afterlife, and hearing Coulter’s comments triggered within me a thought process along the lines of “How dare this woman suggest that someone who lives as a good Jew is not ending up in a good place.” Of course, she did not say this, but for the purposes of explaining my feelings, it does not matter.
So now I find myself in the position of wanting to defend Ann Coulter. Because although I stand by my assertion that her comments were insensitive, they are not nearly as offensive to me as what her opponents are trying to do with them.
I guess Ann Coulter was right, after all. I’m not perfect.
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An Australian immigrant to Israel, Aussie Dave has been blogging since early 2003.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
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October 13th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
I would have asked Ann Coulter whether she was speaking for ALL Christians. It seems to me that she is an evangelical Christian; my limited understanding of evangelicals is that they can individually interpret the Bible. Hmmmm, so without any theological background they interpret a translated document written in ancient languages they do not know anything about.
As a Roman Catholic, she was not speaking on behalf of my Christian beliefs. Sure, we think we The One True Religion, but we acknowledge other religions, including for example Buddhism, Hinduism, as also from God (they just didn’t get his message right, hehe). It will be God who in time will call us all under the one true religion. (Maybe we should take bets on which one that is).
Any religious belief that does not evolve with increasing human knowledge worries me.
It’s a pity Ann doesn’t look into the history of the early Christians, and see how it was the example in the way they lived their lives and treated others that impressed and caused the gentiles to seek out the faith and convert.
October 13th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Consider this: There is no afterlife. Ann’s and your comments about who is more “perfect” (how silly is that!?) is nothing more than a turf war over non-existent turf.
Also, the whole “she was so inconsiderate. I was shocked” is silly political correctness. We should encourage more honest and open speech on our beliefs. That way, the silliness of all religions will become apparent even sooner and to more thinking people.
End of rant.
PS. I enjoy your blog. May Israel one day be rid of the murderous and petty Muslim threats. (Yet another silly religion - the worst of the three).
October 14th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Dude: No offence, but I’m a Jew, and as such I can’t understand why anyone who identifies as Jewish, like you do, could defend an attack on your own people. I think that like a lot of self-styled conservatives, you are unable to reconcile the fact that some of the people on your “side” may have antagonisms toward your kind. From the Log Cabin Republicans, to Alan Keyes to Jews like you, your need to feel like you are a part of something blinds you to the fact that YES - some Conservatives are racists and gay bashers. Some Republicans are Anti-Semites. Just because you share some parts of a political ideology doesn’t mean you have to blindly follow these people. Ann Coulter is not your friend, Jew. Admitting this won’t make you any less Conservative, but it will make you seem a lot smarter.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:36 am
I think what was hurtful for the Jews in Coulter’s comments was that she framed the Christian doctrine in terms of an identity theft. She positioned the Christians not as “Christians”, a category separate from “Jews”, but as the “true” Jews as opposed to the actual Jews who are, in that case… what? Frauds? People lying about their identity? People in denial of their identity? There’s definitely an underlying anti-Semitic message here that is of the same nature as the “Khazar origin theory”.
October 14th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
An important resulting lesson, straight for one who’s been there:
Thank You, Ann Coulter.
October 14th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
I agree with K.Festus,
I am a liberal. I am quite willing to brand Jimmy Carter for what he is (an anti-semitic bastard). I will never defend him or give him any kind of a free pass because I happen to agree with him on some other issues.
I am not sure what things are like in Australia, but I can tell you that people like Coulter, and many of Bush’s cronies are no friends of Jews, and have an agenda of making America a “Christian” country. About 15 years ago I was teaching in a public school. Every year they would have a meeting for the teachers and require us to stand an bow our heads while a Christian prayer was read. I complained, and asked them not to do it, but the administration of the school district was republican conservative and refused to take my feelings into account. I took them to court. In court I was represented by the ACLU. The school district actually had lawyers from the Christian defense coalition (a Republican Christian group that fights for Christian rights at the expense of everyone else’s).
The Christian coalition are people that the present administration is in bed with.
Dave, do you really feel aligned with people like this? Are you willing to support people like Coulter and forsake your Jewish Brethren in America simply because she is a champion of the conservatives?
Why do you think close to 80 percent of American Jews voted against Bush? Do you think we do not support Israel? Of course we support Israel. We know what Bush and his clan represent. They represent a vision of a Christian America that will exist at the expense of Jews and other minorities.
My court case was partially successful. The Christian coalition advised the school board to do a strategic maneuver. They withdrew the prayer for that year, so there would not be a permanent ruling against them. They knew that the law was against them. If the Republicans gain more control of the supreme court, future cases such as this will not be so clear cut. American Jews know this. It is one of the reasons we overwhelmingly vote Democratic in every election.
Stan
October 14th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
What fascinates me is the arbitrariness of all this. The religion you have is pure accident. If you happen to have been born in a Jewish family, you will have been brought up to be Jewish; if in a Chritian family, to be Christian; if in a Buddhist family, to be a Buddhist.
Yet each of you is clinging to this purely accidental set of beliefs that you were landed with as though it were a matter of life and death, as though something nameless but terrible would happen if you believed anything different.
How about just relaxing and letting go of these compulsions? Or are you afraid of being decapitated, stoned, or burned at the stake?
October 14th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Don,
Actually, Don, people can convert in and out of religions. So your contention is not entirely true.
As for me, fear does not drive my beliefs. I grew up completely irreligious and secular, and through my own investigations came to become an observant Jew. I pride myself on being a thinking person.
What fascinates me is how people can NOT believe in a Higher Power. Do you honestly believe that you were created as this complex being by a random mistake of nature? (whatever nature may be) Do you honestly believe that the entire universe came about by accident?
October 14th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Dave, we observant Jews have to the advantage of our faith the uninterrupted transmission of the Torah given at G-d’s revelation at Sinai in front of several million people, the Children of Israel.
Of course, I’m not excluding the independent ability of anyone today to take a hard look at the universe and all that we know of it and to discover G-d’s hand in creation and history. But you got to admit, we Jews have a big head start. Of course there are reasons for that above and beyond the context of this discussion.
October 14th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
“How about just relaxing and letting go of these compulsions? Or are you afraid of being decapitated, stoned, or burned at the stake?”
Quite frankly, yes. I am afraid of being decapitated, stoned or burned at the stake, as was the fate of many of my ancestors. My Jewishness runs through my veins and inhabits every fiber of my being. For whatever reason, chance event of birth, or birth right, I cannot be not Jewish.
This is why I feel compelled to speak out against the Carters, Coulters, and Ahmadinejad’s of the world. They threaten my ability to live freely as who I am, and at some point my life itself.
Stan
October 15th, 2007 at 9:18 am
While Ann simply says things to sell books, did anyone think that maybe she actually believes this (this time)?
My belief states that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Maybe hers does to?
I strongly support Israel and the jewish community, but I do believe that you guys are wrong
October 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
“What fascinates me is how people can NOT believe in a Higher Power. Do you honestly believe that you were created as this complex being by a random mistake of nature?”
I try not to “believe” anything. The evidence suggests that living organisms arose as a logical consequence of chemistry, which in turn results from the properties of the electromagnetic field. The properties of the gravitational field result in the formation of stars (and hence different types of atom) and planets. If you combine the two into a unified field, there is your “higher power”.
I don’t see any evidence for a higher power that behaves like a social mammal, and particularly not like an alpha male social mammal. The standard metaphor for “God” is of something like a human tyrant or a big Saddam Hussein, torturing anyone who disagrees with him, and dishing out rewards to those who grovel. This is IMO simply anthropomorphism - in a form which should be extinct in a democratic society.
I see no evidence at all for any kind of after-life (or before-life). These myths seem to be mere wishful thinking.
“(whatever nature may be) ”
“Nature” is a pretty word for the unified field. All the fine texture of gravitation, electromagnetism, strong and weak forces. We don’t know much about it yet.
“Do you honestly believe that the entire universe came about by accident?”
This universe may well be one of all possible universes, so in a sense which one we find ourselves in is a matter of chance. Think of it as a set of arbitrarily chosen initial conditions, from which the rest follows.
“I strongly support Israel and the jewish community, but I do believe that you guys are wrong”
I agree with this. Israel must be saved. But the metaphysical theories in the Jewish religion are outdated. I think many secular Jews would agree.
October 15th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
“My Jewishness runs through my veins and inhabits every fiber of my being. For whatever reason, chance event of birth, or birth right, I cannot be not Jewish.”
Just as we all must be human. But being Jewish doesn’t mean you have to believe literally in all the metaphysics and mythology in your tradition. These have their value as poetic truths or parables for the human condition, and the Jews are in many ways a microcosm or exemplar of the whole human race.
For example, dietary laws exist originally for public health reasons. Eating beef might be banned because of the risk of mad cow disease, or pork because of the risk of various parasites. The public health reasons can go out of date (there is no danger at all in eating pork today).
Yet one might continue to follow a dietary law out of respect for the traditions of your ancestors, knowing that there is no longer any _practical_ reason for it. One might continue with religious rituals which are beautiful and moving, knowing they refer to nothing that is real in the outside world, but to the history of your people. This is worth while, I think.
However, the down side of preserving traditions is that it fosters an us-and-them attitude, which is what all this religious argument is about. In the 21st century, we really should be acting as human beings, thinking of the whole planet, not as members of one exclusive group or another.
Actually, I think the Jews are better at being world citizens than most. They certainly do good out of all proportion to their numbers.
October 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Don, Jewish dietary laws are not predicated on any logic. People can - and do - speculate - as to possible reasons, including the oft repeated “public health reasons.” But this is not why observant Jews follow these laws.
October 15th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
“Dave, we observant Jews have to the advantage of our faith the uninterrupted transmission of the Torah given at G-d’s revelation at Sinai in front of several million people, the Children of Israel.”
That is a legend, not a literally true piece of history. It is highly unlikely that there were ever several million Jews wandering around in Sinai. Think of the desert of Sinai as a metaphor for the state of doubt and despair in a mind that is hungry for answers. Think of the water coming from a rock as a poetic description of the beginning of understanding, an idea coming into the mind.
Legends, folk tales, parables, drama, fiction, song - we need all of these. They represent the dance of the mind. They are not literally true, in the sense that the historical events of the 1940s are literally true.
October 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
“But this is not why observant Jews follow these laws.”
That is what I am saying. But it would show little respect for your ancestors to suggest that the laws were originally purely arbitrary or random. That would mean that the Jews in around 1000BC were just plain silly, which I doubt.
October 15th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
That is why we do not believe that these laws were arbitrary and random, Don. We believe they were given to us by the world’s Highest Authority, who drafting them for our benefit, as well as for that of the entire world. You may think of it as a legend, but for us it’s a family story, passed on from one generation to another for centuries. Somewhere down my genealogical tree there’s a person who stood in front of Mount Sinai during the revelation. I see no reason to distrust my ancestors’ eyewitness testimony as a source of information. Granted, it’s a personal, in-family matter, and it may not be an argument sufficient to persuade others- but since we aren’t out to preach, that doesn’t bother us much.
October 15th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
First time commenting here - I like your blog.
“What fascinates me is how people can NOT believe in a Higher Power.”
But there’s such a long way to go from believing in some unspecified, unknowable higher power, to accepting Judaism specifically, with all its minutiae of laws of behaviour. Why do you believe you need to follow the Jewish texts, specifically and exclusively?
October 15th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
No one is perfect, but to single out the Jewish people just because she wanted to attack the Jewish host of the Show is despicable. That is the truth, she wouldn’t have gone there if the host was not Jewish, she just wanted to upset him and attack him. Probably wanted to sell some books too. I wonder if she’ll ever say “Muslims” need to be perfected.
I think your original post was spot on and my Jewish friends who I spoke with find it somewhat offensive, but OTOH, that is nothing compared to what they go through on a daily basis.
October 15th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
If you’re not familiar, the Torah clearly states that every commandment within it is G-d’s. Everyone has the choice to adhere to or violate the commandments. That’s what life is about.
October 15th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
“If you’re not familiar, the Torah clearly states that every commandment within it is G-d’s.”
Circular argument. “This book is all true because it says in the book that it is all true.”
I think the Quran makes the same claim.
In my opinion, it is very easy for human beings to convince themselves that their ideas and opinions have come to them directly from a God. It is a very common sensation. If you can convince others that it is true, you can win arguments, or at least have an excuse for hitting them over the head until they agree.
Unfortunately, God seems to issue conflicting instructions to different people.
October 15th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Don, it is you doing the head-hitting here, trying to convince everyone that atheism is the way to go. I am very secure in my belief in G-d and have no need to try to convince you or anyone else.
October 15th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
I’m seriously curious about the answer to my question, though. I’ve asked it before of an orthodox Jew with whom I studied Talmud (just a little, to see what it is), and his answer was that there are proofs within the bible that it is true (prophecies, and such). I wasn’t convinced. I’m curious to know your answer - if it’s the same as his - I disagree but I’m not going to argue about it since it would be pointless. But if it’s something else - I’m genuinely interested in trying to understand those with different views and beliefs than mine.
October 15th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
stvip,
For me, Judaism “feels” right. I was born Jewish, and after I looked deeper into my religion, it felt right to become observant. Something within me - my soul if you will - just knew this was the right way.
There are a number of more logical reasons why I believe Judaism is the truth. Once I accept there is one G-d, then it is not a stretch to accept the Torah, in which G-d lays down the laws for mankind and the Jewish people. The question is then why not the other monotheistic religions? I have a number of reasons:
1. Judaism is the only one that involves a revelation of G-d in front of an entire nation (thus making it highly unlikely a fraud could be perpetuated throughout the generations). The other monotheistic religions are predicated on so-called revelations in front of one or a handful of people.
2. It does not make sense that G-d would give the Torah (5 Books of Moses) to the Jews (in which He clearly says it contains everything and can not be altered), and then would alter it as Christianity claims.
3. The Torah and Prophets contain many predictions and prophecies that have come true, including the famous “suffering servant” passage of Isaiah (”Despised and forsaken by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness: and as one who hides his face from us; despised, and we esteemed him not”) which Christians claims refers to their Messiah, but we see clearly refers to the Jews. Look at history and tell me it isn’t so.
And let’s not forget the other promise from G-d that the Jews will never be destroyed. Now look at history and the fact that Empires have come and gone, but the Jews remain.
G-d also promises that the Jews will succeed. It doesn’t take Einstein to look at the world and our disproportionate influence compared to our numbers.
And there’s so much more. But as I said, I just know it is true. I needn’t bring proofs or justifications.
October 15th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Thanks for your reply. I cannot argue about your feelings. About the logical-rational points for following current-day Jewish practices, I certainly do have counter-points to make.
We can leave it at that if you prefer - I’ll only post my objections if you explicitly tell me you want to hear them.
Just one more question about a technicality - why do you write “G-d”? It’s not an explicit Hebrew name - but a word for a concept in a foreign tongue (so shouldn’t be kadosh), so why avoid writing it in full?
October 15th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
See article Respect for Holy Objects, under the heading “Other Languages”.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Heh. If there’s anything that’ll ever make me lakhzor betshuva (and that’s one unlikely thing right there
) is the fact that we have, indeed, survived against impossible odds again and again and again, in situations which have routinely destroyed other nations.
Even our wars were usually won by miracles (or, perhaps, as Moshe Dayan said, because our enemies were Arabs
).
And perhaps our remarkable national survivability has got more to do with our tradition and the accumulation of wisdom relating specifically to national survival over 3000+ years.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:51 am
To sing a little from Fiddler On The Roof: “That was a miracle, too!”
To paraphrase Don Adams as Maxwell Smart: “The old Kochee-Ve’Otzem-Yahdi trick!”
October 16th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
I do not know what the fuss is all about.
Jewish people, in my experience, can be some of the most ethnocentric people in the world.
Not everybody has to think like you, and not every religion needs to be like Judaism.
Most religions in the history of the world have had some sort of belief that they have “the truth”, and that others would do good to follow suit. That follows logically if you believe in the concept of absolute truth.
So while Jews may believe that there is something intrinsically special about them (and thus blessings and obligations that are good for them only), there is no such belief in Christianity (or most other world religions for that matter). If it’s good enough for me, it’s good enough for you. Christianity after all is not heritable (…as many Jews seem to forget readily–that characteristic is probably only held by the Jewish religion).
Thus Jews should not go around wondering why everybody else doesn’t have a “mine is for me and yours is for you” belief system. It’s for all intents and purposes unique to Jews.
So, Christians are free to believe that their religion is the “completion” of the Torah and that everyone should believe what they do. What, pray tell, is “offensive” about that?
If anything it is slightly peculiar.
And there goes the ethnocentrism again. Here are several posters saying that “Ann Coulter knew there would be many Jews watching but she still…”.
Hard as it may be to believe, most people in America do not go around obsessed with Jews (a funny belief) and what “they” may be doing, thinking or feeling. Occam’s Razor holds that she stated what she stated because that is what she believes–a standard Christian doctrine that applies to people of all religions, but tailored to get a rise out of Deutsch.
Anyways, here is Dennis Prager’s take (audio):
http://dennisprager.townhall.com/talkradio/Show.aspx?RadioShowID=3
“Monday October 15″
—
And enough with the whining about the school prayer. There you go with the ethnocentrism again. Not everything is about you. Are you trying to say that they instituted the “Christian prayer” precisley because you were Jewish? It was all about you?
The very fact that the ACLU is tearing all over the country burning crosses, Christian dollar bills and threatening people who pray to Jesus in public (you know…) means that that was the status quo for some time. Maybe things had always been so. How is this then indicative of a “menacing goal” to change the country to harm Jews by “Christians”?
They were already praying is school. They were already praying before football games.
I would say it is the ACLU that has the campaign of change–not the people who they are targetting in the courts.
Lastly, I always wonder about the constant, never-stated allusions to some onerous burden of “anti-Semitism” (a term more vastly misused than “racism”) that many Jews posting on the internet claim to feel every day.
As someone who is not white, this has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I hear from time to time.
If not even racism is a commonplace personal experience from day to day; how on earth can anti-semitism be (when most Jews are visibly indistinguishable from other whites)?
How?
How is it that I look visibly different from most people in America (who are white) and yet seem to feel experience less discrimination than some of the Jewish posters here–who are white, not visibly distinct, and THRIVING in America.
I can only guess it’s a spin-off of the “victim as powerful”.
If you are white in America, you are understood to be at the top of the food chain. So are “victims”. So, if you can be both white AND a “victim”? My goodness! The powers you can have…
(That is the only explanation I can think of).
Maybe someone can enlighten me of the constant anti-Semitism that nobody else seems to know about. Any examples?
Until then, I can only then it’s a slap of ingratitude to the very country in the world that has been by far (in the history of the world), the best (and safest) place for Jews to live–even better than Israel.
(I can never forget how many Jewish organizations whipped-up a frenzy of predictions of a coming Kristallnacht carried about by conservative Christians against Jews after the former would have viewed “The Passion of the Christ”. That was low. That was a real low blow based on absolutely no (American) historical evidence at all.).
These are the very American Christians who not only provided money since the 1800s to establish the state of Israel, but continue to do so and actively defend it today (more than anyone else in the world–and this is in addition to the $3 billion America gives to Israel every year out of their pockets); but they were slandered left and right. I couldn’t believe it. It was like spitting in your best friend’s face (for the sake of a narrative of victimhood).
NOWHERE else in the world have Jews done so well and been so successful and been so safe.
Where is all this hate and suspicion from?
Jews (some of them at least), need to drop the suspicion complex and show a little gratitude to their only true and earnest friends in this world (go to secular Europe and see how well de-Christianization works out for Jews).
October 16th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
P.S.
Just to clear something up:
The Dennis Prager take is standalone. I only provided the link. The text after the link is a continuation of my own thoughts.
Also, for an analogy, how would you feel if we went to Israel and started suing for the towns to begin removing eruvin for example? Stars of David? Chabad menorahs in Tel Aviv?
Then why is it so important to attack the Boy Scouts here? Or take down every Cross of Creche in sight?
Or to rename Christmas Trees “Holiday” trees? Or modify the Pledge of Allegiance.
America is not nearly as Christian as Israel is Jewish; but we feel no need to complain about a “Jewish plot” to destroy Christianity in the Holy Land.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
And the winner for most condescending rant on this blog goes to…
John, I honestly don’t know where to start with your comment. All I can say is you revealed a heck of a lot more about yourself than about Jews.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
P.P.S.
That should be “Cross or Creche”.
And for goodness’ sake, we have eruvin here in America–in public towns.
Why are Christians all over not suing like you so proudly did?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Don’t hold back, John. Let it all out.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Aussie Dave,
Are you going to call me an anti-Semite now? All I implied was that sometimes people can feel unappreciated.
You cannot deny anything I said was true.
I am not asking for official homage from Jewish organizations (nonsense); I am just hoping for a little less suspicion and (often) slander and a little more trust (or benefit of the doubt).