The Day In Israel: Tuesday Feb 23rd, 2010
During talks yesterday in Brussels, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband demanded full cooperation from Israel with a British inquiry into the use of bogus passports.
The Serious and Organized Crime Agency (who I guess are serious and organized -ed.) or SOCA is investigating how the identities of British citizens were stolen.
“He made clear that we were concerned about the implications of the killing of Mr. al-Mabhouh on stability in the region, and he stressed that we require full cooperation from the Israeli authorities with the SOCA investigation,” Bryant told lawmakers.
The minister said Miliband told Lieberman that Britain and Israel can only cooperate on “the basis of trust and mutual transparency.”
Miliband said Lieberman “had no information to give me.”
The Israeli FM, for his part, said in a statement there was no proof Israel was involved in the killing, and later told reporters: “I think you have all seen too many James Bond movies.”
He said while petting his white cat…
Updates (Israel time; most recent at top)
10:00PM: Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman introduces Prime Minister Avatar! (hat tip: Joe)
9:50PM: It looks as though the Prime Minister has developed somewhat of a backbone.
At least when it comes to the following issue.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday said Israel is obligated to ensure the freedom of religion for all faiths at all holy sites, in a response to allegations from Palestinian leaders that Israel’s heritage sites could spark a religious war.
“We are talking about a campaign of lies and hypocrisy,” read a statement from the Prime Minister’s Office, issued after Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas called Israel’s addition of two West Bank sites to its national heritage list a dangerous provocation, and Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh called for a new uprising against Israel.
“Rachel’s Tomb and the Cave of the Patriarchs are burial sites dating from more than 3,500 years ago of Israel’s forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the nation’s foremothers, Sarah, Rebecca, Leah and Rachel – and are worthy of preservation and renovation,” said the statement from Netanyahu’s office.
8:16PM: Quote of the day:
“The entire world must support those fighting terrorism: an American, British or Israeli soldier regardless if he is in Gaza or Dubai. The fact that a terrorist was killed, and it doesn’t matter if it was in Dubai or Gaza, is good news to those fighting terrorism.”
- Israeli Opposition leader and Kadima chairwoman Tzipi Livni
4:10PM: In case you thought the Knesset was a boring place..
A heated debated arose in the Knesset House Committee on Tuesday, following a request to hold a plenum session on the “forged passports affair”. Member of Knesset Talab El-Sana (United Arab List – Ta’al) asked if the Knesset was run by the Mossad, while MK Carmel Shama (Likud) called the assassination of Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh a “mitzvah”.
The Knesset House Committee session was held following a decision by the Knesset presidency not to authorize the matter for discussion on the Knesset plenum’s agenda. El-Sana filed an appeal to the committee, which was also rejected.
“Why isn’t the Israeli Knesset holding a discussion?” El-Sana asked the committee. “Anyone trying not to hold a discussion has a reason not to hold a discussion… Does (Mossad chief) Meir Dagan decide which matters are discussed in the Knesset?”
El-Sana added, “There is no doubt that this is a matter of public concern and that the Knesset should discuss the issue.”
Regarding the alleged forged passports reportedly used by the Hamas commander’s killers in Dubai, he asked: “Is assassinating in another country using mafia methods a victory? It was an act of terror. As in the attempt on (Hamas politburo chief) Khaled Mashaal, they were caught red-handed in Dubai, every movement, including the glasses, was captured. Whoever is behind this should be prosecuted. Don’t be surprised when arrest warrants are issued against Meir Dagan.”
In response MK Shama said, “If my passport could help in the assassination of Mabhouh, I would be willing to give it to you. I would be willing to give you my regular passport as well as my diplomatic passport.”
MK Yariv Levin (Likud) sarcastically added, “Firing rockets at kindergartens – that’s heroism. Don’t threaten us. Don’t sit here and threaten us.” Shama then said, “I would be very sorry if the State of Israel did not carry out this mitzvah.”
MK Ahen asked, “Why do the MKs feel threatened by having the matter discussed? A matter that has been spread over pages, down to the smallest detail. The media had a field day, almost like Carmel Shama’s euphoric spirit.”
Tibi and Shama then exchanged words, and a number of MKs chimed in. Shama said: “Meir Dagan did good work quietly. He is dear to Israel.” Tibi said he does not agree with Shama and named a different hero: “The real hero in this story is the Dubai police commander, who exposed the assassins.”
Shama asked: “That clown?” In response, Tibi said, “That clown caught you with your pants down.” At this point MK Levin intervened and told Shama: “Let Dubai’s ambassador in Israel speak.”
MK Meir Sheetrit of Kadima tried to calm his comrades and said the debate was unnecessary. Tibi had the last work and said, “I fear for Shama, he has an Arab name, he could also be assassinated tomorrow.”
1:08PM: Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi reportedly avoided meeting PA President Mahmoud Abbas while the latter was visiting Tripoli despite his explicit requests.
9:35AM: Spot the grave of the airline hijacker:
Palestinians recite Koranic verses over the grave of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a former Hamas commander, at the tombs of Palestinians who were killed during conflicts Israel, at al-Yarmouk camp near Damascus February 22, 2010. Dubai has accused Israel of involvement in the killing of Al-Mabhouh in a hotel in Dubai last month. Israel has declined to confirm or deny it had any role. REUTERS/Khaled al-Hariri (SYRIA – Tags: CRIME LAW POLITICS)
6:20AM: More on our latest Zionist Death DroneTM (reported by someone who sounds a bit like a drone herself).
6:15AM: Yet another Israeli ethnic cleansing fail of large proportions.
Ibrahim, a 20-year-old Galilee Muslim whose failed circumcision two years earlier left him with too little penile skin to perform his matrimonial duties, was abandoned by his fiancee prior to their wedding. But plastic surgeon Prof. Yaron Har-Shai eventually enabled Ibrahim to get engaged to another woman by adapting – for the first time in the world – a technique used on hand and facial burns to rehabilitate his penis, restoring normal function.
Har-Shai and colleagues at Haifa’s Carmel Medical Center and the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology’s Rappaport Faculty of Medicine have just published their report on the highly unusual case in the British Journal of Plastic, Reconstructive & Aesthetic Surgery, which presents not only the details of the procedure but also ‘before’ and ‘after’ photos. The doctors’ careful search of the Medline database showed that the technique had not been used previously to correct such a problem.
The man, now 21, is due to wed a different woman who accepted his marriage proposal after hearing about the normal appearance and functioning of his penis.
That’s some grape vine.
Upon hearing the news, the Carmel staff who treated him sent the couple a huge bouquet of flowers and wishes for good luck and many children.
Instead of undergoing a ritual circumcision at the conventional age for Muslims – 13 years – the man waited until 18, apparently because he comes from a secular family and didn’t think it was important, Har-Shai told The Jerusalem Post on Monday.
The procedure was performed by an overzealous traditional practitioner, who botched the job. Instead of removing just the foreskin, he also cut off ventral penile skin, a complication that occurs in 0.2 percent of circumcisions.
Although able to have erections before the accident, the unfortunate man found that the error shortened his organ by causing the development of scar tissue that prevented the skin from expanding with increased blood supply. Skin webbing developed from the sub-coronal groove to the anterior scrotal base. Intercourse was impossible, and when his first fiancee learned about his condition, the wedding was off.
An anesthesiologist who knew the family turned to Har-Shai, a Technion graduate who worked at Haifa’s Rambam Medical Center until he was invited to head the plastic surgery department at Carmel.
Surgeons abroad trying to treat similar injuries in the past took skin from other parts of the patient’s body and transplanted it onto the penis; the result, however, was not only of a different color but the penis also sometimes developed a web texture and became too small to allow for intercourse.
First, Har-Shai performed a known procedure called Z-plasty, a technique used to improve the functional and cosmetic appearance of scars. It can elongate a contracted scar or rotate the scar tension line. The procedure, however, was unsuccessful.
Har-Shai’s father, Prof. Bernard Hirshowitz, was a pioneer in plastic surgery at Rambam before his retirement and years ago developed the “flap technique-5” procedure to enable webbed skin between fingers to become flexible after suffering a burn and shrinking, as well as for treating facial skin injuries. But it had never been used to rehabilitate a shrunken penis.
Har-Shai decided to adapt his father’s innovation – for the first time in the world – to the young man’s problem. He created five flaps from small bits of skin left on the man’s penis itself so they were not rejected and did not turn into webbing.
“Although previous surgery had been executed at the surgical site, uneventful healing of the skin flaps and complete relaxation and elongation of the skin web [was] achieved,” the team wrote.
The man’s penile length measured 11 centimeters after the procedure – eight centimeters longer than it was after the complications from the circumcision set in. Two months after the operation, the patient had functional erections, Har-Shai told The Post.
“It also looks great, very aesthetic,” he enthused. He added that his father’s flap technique-5 could also be used on baby boys if they have a shortage of skin.
There have been no previous reports of such a complication in circumcisions in Israel, even though some 50,000 ritual procedures are performed here each year. Har-Shai said he saw references to the complication occurring in Iran.
“I would have no problem treating Iranians who need it,” he said, though there are no diplomatic relations between the two countries.
6:08AM: The latest Turkey-Jerkey:
Israel is turning a blind eye to a huge poster showing President Shimon Peres seemingly bowing to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that was unfurled from a crane in an Ankara suburb on Sunday.
Neither the President’s Residence nor the Foreign Minister would comment on the poster, which superimposed an image of a bowing Peres in front of Erdogan, over the caption “Erdogan, a leader whom the world bows down to.”
While at first glance this seemed to be Turkish retribution for the public hazing of Turkey’s ambassador to Israel in January, when Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon sat him on a lower chair and reprimanded him over an anti-Semitic television show broadcast in Turkey, the Turkish press reported that Erdogan’s office had the poster taken down before Erdogan appeared at the site to inaugurate a new road network.
It was not immediately clear who was responsible for the poster, with some diplomatic officials in Jerusalem saying it obviously came from the top, while others said it was quite possible that this was an independent act of protest that was not choreographed by the government.
A leader bowing down to another leader? As if that really happens.
About the Author
Having been brainwashed at a young age, Jono moved to Occupied Palestine 20+ years ago from Australia. After 15 years selling insipid Jew technology to immoral, BDS snubbing foreigners he decided the ultimate evil would be to sell the cancerous Zionist Regime as a product itself. He now works selling luxury private tours of the heinous Zionazi hellhole to infidel supporters of Apartheid, colonialism and Western Imperialism.Filed Under: General
So the complication occurs in 0.2% of cases, but never here. I always thought the Mohalim did a better and more humane job. (And the the operation does more than take off the foreskin; it wouldn't be kosher otherwise.) I have seen our expert in Baltimore; he is so quick you can't even see it.
It looks like Perez is about to give Erdogan a "special" kiss.
So now we know what the bust up between Turkey and Israel is all about. Erdogan just wants a bit a special time alone with Perez, but Perez keeps rebutting his advances. Erdogan is now going out of his mind with frustration; is getting angry and having a tantrum with his reluctant conquest; and is having to resort to putting big posters up showing what he really wants to happen.
Jim is supposed to do those jokes..
No, no, no. The more the merrier!
How prevalent is circumcision among Palestinians? I know there is a movement in this country and Europe to oppose circumcision as medically unnecessary and is considered to be male mutilation. I find a circumcised penis more aesthetically pleasing and therefore hope this movement gets "cut short." Is there a difference in appearance or function if the circumcision is performed by a moel (sp?) instead of a doctor?
First, not only does Islam require require circumcision, but Arabs practiced it before Mohammad. Judaism also requires circumcision for "the children of Ishmael", although because they are mixed with Abraham's later children, not in of themselves.
Jewish Milah (I am tired of spelling the English version) has a second stage, where the skin is drawn back, so I suspect the scar is different. (For obvious reasons, I haven't looked at anyone else's.) This is not required of Arabs by Jewish law, nor, it seems above, by their laws.
Milah is performed by a large number of secular Jews here. They may use a doctor, but he does it like a Mohel, I believe, except that he uses anesthasia. I do not know the percentage. Secular Arabs (by the small sample I have seen) are more like Traditional Jews, not Secular ones, so I presume the percentage is very high. (Besides, the PA is not exactly a free country.)
Terminology: Jews are divided here into Religious (both kinds), Traditional (largely from the Middle East), and Secular. The percentage depends on the poll, maybe 20%, 25%, 55%. This is more-or-less official; I got asked this on my adoption application.
Anyone who has been there knows that Rachel's tomb is kind of an extension of Jerusalem. The entire way there is between fences; there are no checkposts but you are walled in. (Exactly who is the wall keeping out or in?) It gives the prayers there a whole new perspective.
They wanted to put it on the table. Menachem Porush (Agudah) came literally crying to the Prime Minister, and Chief Rabbi Lau, who went through the Holocaust as a young boy, said "you don't abandon your mother". Something got through.
Is that really a good thing, or is it another indication that our tax-subsidized television (I'm assuming; I don't know which network EN is on) is out of control? The BZD had an article from some satirist or official (sorry, I did not care to keep it) unapologetic about a skit in which settler kidnapped a soldier and about the clear left-wing bias. (Doesn't say much for the BZD, either.)
If we have a supposed right-wing government, why is it taking money from its citizens – literally at the point of a gun – to subsidize left-wing hate speech – (funny or not, there is no balance)?
I don't have a TV; I can see what I want on the internet without paying this tax. You folks who pay it – do you like where your money is going?
I give up. Are you American or Israeli?
American Israeli. Made Aliyah two years ago, insist I am unqualified to decide security matters here, although I have been told by some Israelis that I have a good grasp of the politics. Live in Haifa, work in Yoqneam, my immediate manager is an Israeli Arab, "Secular" Moslem.
I am a citizen of two countries, fill out two tax forms (the one here is not required), and the first army to draft me, gets me, just in case someone wants a 50-year-old with no military training.
I take it you are a university student in the U.S.? (BTW, in Israel, always say university, not college. There is a big difference here, and what in the States would be called a college of a university is here called a "faculty". Also, "Professor" sounds more impressive than "Doctor".)
Ah now it all makes sense. You seemed to be from both places at once.
"my immediate manager is an Israeli Arab, "Secular" Moslem." — Colonialism/Two-Tiered Society fail
Yes I am. It is called university in I think the rest of the anglophone world, which has influenced Israel. Many professors here still use professor even if they have a doctorate.
Myself, I plan to possibly make aliyah. I have several life plans, so something will happen. I am currently studying political science and will minor in African Studies (I may have other minors/major but I'm not sure yet) and am also learning Swahili. Part of my aliyah plan is to use this to help strengthen ties between Israel and Swahiliphone countries (Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, eastern Congo). I also aim to help the Ethiopian Jews become better integrated and work to strengthen ties with loyal Arabs (I am a big fan of MK Ayoob Kara). Whatever I do in life, I want to make some part of the world better and not just hold some dinky office job.
May I ask which party you support?
I also hope to do Taglit Birthright in 2011 or maybe 2012. I really want to see the homeland.
Oh that reminds me, I also would like to set up a program for anti-israelis to see how they have been brainwashed and see the real Israel, similar to the Taglit Birthright, but for non-zionists/anti-zionists/anti-israelis/what have you. With appropriate screening of course. I know one such person who wants to see Israel and I am pretty sure would not engage in charades while there.
Taglit does not do the real Israel…if everything were as cheery in Israeli society, let alone the great conflicts, then Taglit would be real.
However, you can do it yourself like I did! I took every opportunity to get "away" from the tour like in Tzfat when a friend and I hiked down to the old cemetery to pay our respects and in the process ran into quite a few Bratslavers.
Just be careful what you say about Taglit. It is great and it was the best experience ever but it is NOT the real Israel.
Well I dont really care. It's free. How is it "not real"?
Please come. Do try to talk to people not from popular groups.
It's kind of interesting you mentioned non-zionists; it's kind of interesting that you mentioned it, because I would not have known what you meant until yesterday, when I saw the term in Wikipedia (Palestinian project). Quite surprising to me, as it seems that the term when applied to religious and non-religious people means two different things, as for that matter does (often) Zionist. After all, I'm a religious non-Zionist myself, and I made Aliyah, which (according to the article) a secular non-Zionist would not do.
I certainly will come for that and later on my own for a summer or maybe figure out if I can stay. I actually have two sets of cousins (at least) there.
Nonzionist actually seems the wrong word now and anti-zionist is better. My plan would take people who are opposed to Israel or perceived Israeli policy to see the realities, as long as they do not intend to stir up trouble.
I actually have found that a lot of anti-I/Z people do not realize that there are people who return for religious reasons that is not inherently Zionist. And they would settle in Judea and Samaria (if physically allowed) no matter who rules it. Me, I am not even remotely religious, but feel a strong ethnic and cultural pull and relationship.
The difference between a Zionist and a non-Zionist (Chareidi), if they are religious, is whether they make a State (as opposed to the Land) a part of their religion. Personally, I think these are differences are obsolete arguments from a hundred years ago; the state is here, and we all know what would happen if it went away. The split in the religious community here drives me crazy. (But individually, people are not so split. Also, I think religious people here feel closer to the secular than in the States, which is why they are less easy-going on religious issues. We Americans like to think we are more tolerant, but I think it's really that we care less.)
Half of my relatives are here, as well as many more who came in the early days and we lost track of. We are the latecomers. Unfortunately, none of them are up here in the North. (Well, one cousin is in a religious Kibbutz just North of the Line and just east of Jordan.) I accidentally run into people from school thirty years ago; so does my Dad when he visits. The family is mostly Religious Zionist is origin, but a lot of us became Chareidi.
Well, not completely. There is a lot of discrimination, but more against my group (chareidi). But this can be fought; it's not endemic. There is an unfortunate inattention to the Labor laws here (it seems to me that the more the law is "for the worker", the less the company is, but my sample is rather small), whether for age discrimination, religious discrimation, or the blue laws (which were not passed by religious people) – not every secularist wants to be forced to work seven days a week.
Part of my point about University is that there is a <conceptual> difference – in the states one goes to a college whether or not in is part of a university, and, for example, a degree from Cooper Union College is more prestigious than the same degree from CUNY – but in Israel none of this is true. Higher education here is definitely European system; a B.A. is Computer Science, as I have, would not exist here.
Ah yes, Haredi (the spelling I learned). I dont know enough about that issue to give an opinion, but this Israeli I talk to cant stand you/them.
What I am talking about is that I've heard that Bedouins have trouble getting jobs after service and are also sometimes considered traitors by their own people. Things like that. As well, I know the Ethiopians have their own problems integrating. I'm sure you know the Yiddish word "shvartze" — some Jews can be racist against darker skinned people, even brethren.
According to a poll, it's Chareidi, then Arab, then Ethiopean. I doubt they are really Jewish in origin; I think they are Judaisers, like millions of Asians. But if they converted (they generally do) they are as Jewish as you or I – or my wife, who is an African-American convert.
That's interesting about your wife. I was just reading about Capers Funnye and other converts. It is of course of special interest to me because I am already interested in Africa.
Who is that?
I have met quite a number, and my wife knows a lot more. However, the Swazi we know thorugh his wife, who my wife knows from school, and she is nether white nor a convert.
Racism is, of course, a problem, since their are so few Blacks in the U.S. or among the Chareidim; the Dati Leumi have it simpler because now so many Ethiopeans are integrated among them. I am happy my wife Rabbi (Sen. Lieberman's, when he is in Washington) made her wait three (actually four) years to convert. BTW, if there is any indication the conversion is for marriage, they won't take you. As the Talmud says, "maybe you have seen a boy" (approx. quote).
A famous rabbi descended from Gullahs or Nigerians (or both) ie he is dark-skinned (I say this out of respect because I think saying "black" or "African-American" is still racist because it implies there is a significant difference beyond skin color). He happens to be a first cousin once-removed of Michelle Obama, which only has increased his notability.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/magazine/05rabb…
If you've ever seen the movie Alien, the dark-skinned fellow there is Jewish (and a Republican).
A famous rabbi descended from Gullahs or Nigerians (or both) ie he is dark-skinned (I say this out of respect because I think saying "black" or "African-American" is still racist because it implies there is a significant difference beyond skin color). He happens to be a first cousin once-removed of Michelle Obama, which only has increased his notability.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/magazine/05rabb…
If you've ever seen the movie Alien, the dark-skinned fellow there is Jewish (and a Republican).
Don't forget Lisa Bonet.
Actually, I think African American is good, because it ignores race. It's like Irish-American (which may wife also is part). But I still say Black because I am tired of changing the term/
Well the problem with AA is that what do you call "New Africans" that have come here? The descendants of Africans already here are completely different culturally. That's why I try my best to avoid using any terminology, and if I have to I keep it at skin color.
They are the same, technically. The beauty is that you avoid the whole issue of race. I am old enough to remeber in school when they told us we had to stop saying "Negro" and start saying "Black". After a while it gets silly.
I had an issue here, where someone's statement was translated as the N-word. There is no such word in Hebrew; they obviously meant Kushi (Ethiopean or Nubean), which has been the word for a Black person for four THOUSAND years. It is considered prejorative way in secular circles, but religious people still use it occasionally without negative intent. Normally you just say Ethiopean or Sudanese or whatever.
In the first months here, not knowing all of this, I ID'd my wife (when someone had to recognize her) as "Kushit". Heaven knows how that sounded. I don't use it anymore, as my wife would be insulted (and she is not overly sensitive), but the whole thing annoys me.
Yeah, it's not anything like what it used to be. Hopefully "our" children wont even say any of those words. I plan to write a book about all this, on how we can end racism: by stop pretending we are different races.
Good luck. Do stop by. My wife is very interested in her African heritage, has a lot of interesting books on the subject. A also know a convert from a Swazi royal family – but that's probably the wrong language, although he is a language expert.
I don't know if Kara would call himself an Arab; many (most?) Druze do not.
Republican, for sure. Oh, you mean in Israel. Well, I vote for the coalition that used to be Agudah (Chareidi), because I want my neighbors to be able to send their kids to school. I did not push this on my wife; originally I suggested that she vote for the religious Zionist party, but I was mainly interested that she vote. She ended up voting for Likud (fine with me).
We are both LESS extreme here; with the stakes so high, I have no glib opinions on secruity issues, and my wife feels that we don't have the money here for the level of social programs she supports in the U.S. And the nice things is, unlike our U.S. votes, we don't cancel each other out – our parties can make coalitions with each other!
Swaziland is quite about as far from Kenya as Israel is in the other direction. Where is your wife from?
I suppose that is true. I have struggled over whether the Druze should be considered Arab or not. By calling them Arab, you can show there are sane Arabs. But, by calling them not Arab, you can argue the Arabs are not native. And so on..
What's that coalition called now? I know it's one of the religious ones, but there's a few and I cant seem to find it. I like Likud. I used to support Kadima, but eventually realized that they seem to be too weak/"left". Although, I suspect one of my theories applies there as well as here: that whether you have Kadima, Labor, or LIkud in the PM, the same…response to the peace process will occur. Here, I am doubtful McCain or any Republican (Except Ron Paul maybe) would have done anything much different from Obama. Now for me, I like Avigdor Lieberman and Yisrael Beiteinu. He is really appealing to me. Also, I do emphasize my ancestral ties to Russia, even as a 3rd/4th generation American, which somewhat correlates with YB. He gets a lot of, in my opinion, unjustified criticism. I am curious how he is perceived there by people who dont vote for YB.
Yes, proportional representation is very nice. The problem in Israel is the threshold is a bit too low (used to be 1% even). I've actually run simulations and found that 3-5% is more ideal. Unfortunately, there are so many political factions that this might have chaotic effects inside parties. However, it also might force more cohesion. Ah, political science.
The result of the threshold is to knock out the moderates, for example the moderate-Chareidi Agudah Worker Party, or the left-wing-religious party Meimad. The latest trick is Lieberman's suggestion to allow expatriates to vote. Like all reforms, its purpose is to disenfranchise the religious population; if that is not the result, it will be withdrawn. This is what happened with direct election of the Prime Minister.
Shas is too big for the "Achuz HaChasimah" (threshold) to do the trick. They could do it without disenfranchising people by letting smaller parties make agreements in case they don't make it – but the word "Democracy" in Hebrew simply means that the Left gets its way. (Otherwise, how is the Bagatz an example of Democratia?)
Frankly, Lieberman scares me more even than Meretz. But that's on domestic issues; I have no beef with him on security or foreign policy. (Interestingly, his delegation has a least one religious members.) Also, I have nothing against him personally; I thought the skit on him taking over the country was very funny, but the Avatar skit went too far.
Thresholds usually shut out moderates because the fringe parties are forced into other lists where they can be effectively silenced.
Expatriates are interesting. I know a few and I dont really understand why they left. Although I've never asked.
Oh yeah I undersatnd why he can scare you. He is not a fan of the religious Jews, from what I have read. YB has an interesting mix. Him, Ayalon, some Druze I forget the name, and Shlomo Mola or w/e his name is in Kadima almost joined it.
Well, I am just telling you that the results of thresholds that I know about here. Undoubtedly a lot of other parties were shut out, but Poalai Agudah pre-dates the state, their people were quite popular, and I saw it happen.
What is possible, I dont know the exact terminology, is that at 0%, fringe parties flourish. At 2% they flourish even more. But once you go higher, they start to decline as they are forced into the same party or list.
Did you see the Kibbutz on the show about the British kids who came to Israel? That's Poalai Agudah, what's left of it. Not the family; they are American Dati Leumi. (An Israeli Dati Leumi would not use a wig under normal circumstances, but a kerchief or a hat.)
Yes, that was actually really interesting. I usually hate reality shows, but that was more "real".
They didn't really show them in the followup show; I wonder why. My first cousin lives in the same town (Nof Ayalon), but in the other section.
I don't think this is Leiberman's personal opinion; I think it's his political position. At least one of his delegation in the Kenesset is religious, and I suspect he got a lot of religious votes.
Yahadut HaTorah. Degel HaTorah and Agudah, but everywhere else in the world Agudah is the whole thing. Shas is the Sephardi Chareidi party, although half their voters are probably not Chareidi – and many might not even be religious. It should be pointed out that it was Rav Ovadia Yosef of Shas who declared (when Chief Rabbi) that the Ethiopeans were Jewish, something secular scholarship denies.
Washington, D.C., where she is stuck at the moment, unfortunately.
The normal situation is that Charedim are blamed for whatever someone doesn't like regarding religious issues. This is factually incorrect; there is agreement between the Chareidim and the Religious Zionists (not to mention the Traditional and occasionally even the Secular) on a variety of issues, with the Religious Zionists even stronger on such things as Civil Marriage. Some American denominations are actively trying to use the Israeli courts to destroy the Chareidim (unfortunately, they dropped standing as a requirement), even though we aren't the only people in their way – but they know to use hate. Same with the extreme Left in Israel.
Oh I see Yahadut HaTorah/United Torah Judaism. Shas is interesting. They apparently get a lot of Arab votes and Druze votes (if you want to separate them). I did a lot of research on the parties when I was roleplaying Israel a while back. They have a course here on Israeli Politics I hope to take next semester or at some point.
Do you mean the Beta Israel or all Ethiopians? Because I have speculated that all Ethiopians may be descended from some of the tribes. Ethiopia is a fascinating country and Ethiopian Orthodox is the closest to Judaism of the Christianities (I think they keep Kosher).
I mean all, but I am no expert. If you look at yutorah.org, you can see a lecture of Dr. Berger (they list him as Rabbi Berger), at the end of a lecture on Shituf (the Jewish view of Christianity) suggest that the historical evidence is against it, but the Rav Yosef's ruling that they are Jewish may still be valid even if the basis is incorrect. Until recently, I thought that Rav Yosef was the only scholar, religious or secular, who considers them Jewish – but my friends tell me that there are some religious Zionist scholars who also feel that they are.
Complicating this is the fact that declaring someone non-Jewish is a leniency, as you can only be illegitimate (mamzer) (and therefore limited in whom you can marry) if you are Jewish. Declaring a marriage invalid has a similar effect; Rav Moshe's decision saying that one could invalidate non-Orthodox marriages pervented a lot of Agunot and Mamzerim.
I think the difference between the Ethiopeans and the (Cochin / B'nei Israel) in India is that the latter kept Hebrew. I don't think there is a legitimate lost group of Jews without Hebrew.
Didnt the Beta Israel keep Hebrew also? I think that's how they were discovered.
It's interesting how times have changed since then. Ethiopia was the enemy and Sudan was the "friend". Now Sudan is the enemy and Ethiopia is the good friend.
My understanding is that none of the Ethiopeans kept Hebrew. They speak Amharic, and their books, I thought, are in it. If I am wrong, it could change my opinion.
You know Ethiopia was one run by a Jewish woman named Judith (my wife's name)? She was overthrown, IIRC, by the same Moslem who then liberated the Jews of Spain. (Saw this a long time ago; I don't know details.) You can have an enemy and a friend at the same time. There have been a lot of American politicians like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudit I didnt read much of it, but that looks to be her.
I meant I'm pretty sure I remember a documuntary saying that the Beta Israel were observed praying in Hebrew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudit I didnt read much of it, but that looks to be her.
I meant I'm pretty sure I remember a documuntary saying that the Beta Israel were observed praying in Hebrew.
Interesting atricles; the one on Judith repeats an obvious anti-Jewish bias. I'm not sure how much to believe of the others. I had though Rabbi Goren had decided they weren't Jewish, in order to keep them from being Mamzerim. I'll have to ask about it more. At this point, I think I'll change my position to undecided – not that it really matters.
I am moving us over here because the other box was getting too small.
You think that is biased? Go look at the "West Bank" article. As soon as I finish with some other tasks, I'm going to start something about the neutrality of that article since I am an editor on Wikipedia.
Live from Gaza, Starving "palestinians":
http://www.paltoday.com%2Farabic%2FNews-64161.html&s... target=”_blank”>http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2…” target=”_blank”>http://www.paltoday.com%2Farabic%2FNews-64161.html&s...
Thanks. I see, checking on the links, "From my / pictures:: strike and clashes in Hebron to protest against the Judaizing Tomb of the Patriarchs". They took a Jewish building (Herodian), turned it into a Mosque, and then accused us of "judaising" it. I suppose you could say Herod the Evil was Arab (I'm not sure we know where the Idumeans – as opposed to the original Edomites – are from), but he sure as heck wasn't Moslem.
2:40 in video — "Display of Unmanned UAV"