Comments on: The Day In Israel: Thursday Mar 4th, 2010

By: juvanya

juvanya — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:05:30 +0000

I think some would. We have our technical names: Sephardim and Mizrahi, but the outside world is more likely to say Arab.

When did that start? 1880 or 1948? That reminds me of the guy who said Jews should accept Arab Muslim majority and they will be a protected minority.

By: juvanya

juvanya — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:01:59 +0000

I've seen here and there that Arabs claim descent from Esau. I thought Ishmael was Arabic for Esau.

By: Michael Zvi Krumbein

Michael Zvi Krumbein — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:22:25 +0000

Did they say that? Esau in Jewish thinking is similiar to the anti-C in Christian. The rabbis tended to associate him with the Evil Empire of Rome, and thus the tendency to associate Esau with Christendom – at least when they aren’t being nice to us.

In the time of the second Temple there were a people called the Idumenans, but it is not clear if they were the orginal Edomites. The Arabs started pushing them, and they started pushing us. They were foricbly converted to Judaism by the Hasmoneans, possibly with a technical status of slaves (not that they were actually sold to anyone). They eventually took over, starting with Herod the Evil. The Jews hated their rule so much they asked the Romans to rule directly.

By: Michael Zvi Krumbein

Michael Zvi Krumbein — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:15:50 +0000

You know, the Koran doesn’t actually SAY which one he sacrificed.

By: Michael Zvi Krumbein

Michael Zvi Krumbein — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:14:28 +0000

I don’t believe that they would accept that label. There is a term (I actually got that from Wikipedia) which I cannot prononuce, meaning arabic-speaking Jews. Of course, the Jews fro mthe Middle East were kind if overrun by the refugess from Spain in 1492, the Sephardim. Althogether, you are talking about, say, 40% of the Jewish population here.

The PLO charter says that all Jews who here before the “Zionist invasion” get to stay here. Of course, most of the Arabs followed them, but that presumably doesn’t count.

By: juvanya

juvanya — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:41:00 +0000

You know I never thought about it that way before. How to they claim descent from Esau though..

By: islam is false

islam is false — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:03:36 +0000

That is because Islam is an attempt to take over from Judaism. Islam is built on the theory that Ishmael was the one taken to be sacrificed, not Isaac.

Hence the attempts by Arab countries to say that they were there "first"

By: juvanya

juvanya — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:00:05 +0000

I suppose. There are Arab Jews. I've talked to this radical anti-Israel Egyptian guy who says all European Jews must go, but the Arab Jews can stay.

By: Michael Zvi Krumbein

Michael Zvi Krumbein — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:40:11 +0000

I can think of a few reasons – There are lots of Christian Arabs, but no Jewish Arabs anymore, Christians missionize, and it's a lot eaiser to convert to Christianity than Judaism (not to mention a lot easier to practice). Remember, he converted for positive reasons, not to "get" someone.

By: juvanya

juvanya — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 04:09:06 +0000

Does anyone else wonder why Yousef converted to Christianity instead of Judaism? I personally think it would be more of a middle finger to do so. Also, Judaism and Islam are quite close in nature on many aspects. Christianity is much different.