English Dirty Laundry
Brian of London here opening the front door to Israellycool with some keys I found under the flowerpot round the back. I’ll try to see if I can conjure up some wit for this one though to be honest I wish I wasn’t writing it. This is about the EDL, the blogosphere and, by its nature it is a little “inside baseball”. If you want to know more about Natalie Portman’s kid’s name (as revealed by Israeli TV host: Guy Penis) this is not the post you are looking for.
I’m only putting it here because if I’m silent about these matters it will be used by various groups to infer things about me: I’d rather I said what I think than let others speak for me.
What happened now?
While I was mostly off the grid from Thursday to Saturday the de facto founder of the EDL’s Jewish Division, Roberta Moore, publicly quit the EDL and fired a shot back at some of the people she’d been working with in the EDL. This was, of course, picked up and misinterpreted by such stalwarts of the anti-EDL community as the Jewish Chronicle (find it yourself I’m not linking) and some of the other noted anti-EDL sites. More importantly, Pamela Geller expressed some severe doubts about the soundness of the EDL based on some of the things Roberta had said and on correspondence (some of which I’ve seen) that took place in the background.
Roberta had been scheduled to appear in Strasbourg on behalf of the EDL at an event organised by Stop the Islamisation of America (SIOA) and it’s associated European group. This event was essentially banned because the police in Strasbourg withdrew protection and washed their hands: free speech is dead in Europe, but you knew that. The mere act of Roberta being sanctioned by the EDL leadership to represent them at this international meeting had already caused fits of indignation among some sections of the EDL.
As a direct response to Pamela’s post, Tommy Robinson sent out a heartfelt statement and Pamela promptly published this and moved back into the position of support for the EDL while watching it carefully. For someone largely on the outside, such as her, I don’t think one can ask for much more.
When I first saw Pamela’s reaction to Roberta leaving I was disappointed. Without Pamela’s original endorsement followed by my own careful research and talking to a number of people I knew who had begun to work with the EDL, I might not have investigated the EDL. It was also because I met Roberta a couple of weeks ago and knew something of her plans, that I knew the situation wasn’t as bleak as it first appeared from what Pamela wrote. However, the reaction this elicited from Gates of Vienna, seemingly at the same time as Tommy was sending his statement, was not something I could sign on to either.
Pamela is one of the stalwarts of the counter Jihad. She’s doing great work over in America and I don’t like the way in which she was personally attacked (along with Robert Spencer) over this. Ever since the original counter Jihad blog wars in 2007 and subsequent further separations, I’ve been monumentally dis-heartened by the level of in fighting that goes on. The ranks of the real counter Jihad are so small, we don’t have the power to fight each other and the real enemies we face. I certainly wouldn’t condemn her publicly, even if I disagreed, especially after Tommy’s statement seemed to clear the air. People have carved out many different roles in this fight and there is no point bringing down people who are reaching an audience and educating people because of differences in opinion.
Why does the EDL have a Jewish Division?
The EDL has had a Jewish Division from almost day one to highlight the fact that Jews can also defend England from islamisation and that Jews and all other races have a responsibility to preserve a country that has, broadly speaking, allowed them to thrive. It was, at least at the start, a valuable counter to the charge that the EDL was an extension of previous racist or neo-Nazi groups. The ethos of the EDL wasn’t and I’m still convinced it isn’t today.
What is a Nazi?
Every now and then someone comes out and screams Nazi at someone else. In response to all this Henrik R. Clausen wrote a good piece in EuropeNews: Fascists or National Socialists in the English Defence League? I too have a rather strict definition before I call someone a Nazi. I have to feel that the person would either murder people in cold blood or stand by and watch while others did so based purely on ideological beliefs that someone else is personally sub human. So I tend not to throw the term around. Esmerelda Weatherwax, someone I’ve met and know through her stalwart work at New English Review, has also addressed this subject and is worth taking note of.
Dirty Laundry
But it is the case that there are many people in the UK and the whole world who have a strong belief in a number of “memes” that are wholy incredible and basically wrong. Many of these trace roots back to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and can be seen as Zionist/Jewish conspiracies to take over the world. Seeing as how the US has at least one former President that regularly espouses these views, it’s unsurprising that its a view held by members of the EDL too. It’s hard to think that Islam is a major problem and also believe Jews brought down the World Trade Centre but some manage it.
It’s my belief that learning about Islam’s threat to Israel and the Jews, and connecting that threat with one’s own situation tends to draw people away from chimeras such as a world Zionist conspiracy. Back in the days of my comedy show at Shire Network News I used to frequently joke about splitting infinitives and waiting for my cheque from the World Zionist Conspiracy™. I’m still waiting: I’ll be waiting for a long, long time.
And then there is the unique case of the UK. It’s hard to explain to outsiders the esteem in which the BBC is held in the UK. It has taken people a long time to wake up to its poisonous nature and most still haven’t. It’s hard to blame everyone for their views when the BBC and other media simply trip over themselves trying to find any way to blame Israel and the Jews and the news safe hate group, Zionists, for all the world’s ills.
But the question is how to deal with these people in the EDL? Do you confront them publicly, denounce them, ridicule them or threaten to physically fight them? I don’t think any of those are worth doing. I think you focus on the real target: decreasing the influence of Islam on the lives of non Muslims. Education about Islam will hopefully reduce the importance of these other factions and the inclusion of groups, like Jews, Hindus and homosexuals, who they also tend to distrust or hate, will naturally drive them away.
The King David problem
There is also another problem in the UK in general that is also represented in the ranks of the EDL. I call this the “King David” problem. The EDL started because of the abuse given to returning British soldiers on the streets of Luton. The EDL has a very strong respect for the British military in a way that the UK media seems to have given up on years ago. I like this. However, for years the old nationalist parties attacked Jews for the way in which Israel won its independence from the old British Mandate. At the forefront of this one sided historical attack was the King David hotel bombing. I’ll tackle this one day but not now. Suffice it to say that I don’t think everyone really understands this event.
The Future
As far as saving the UK from increasing islamisation the EDL is the only game in town today. There is no political impetus: there is one weak anti-Europe party (UKIP) but even immigration alone isn’t the issue. It’s only Islamic immigration that is the problem. The UK is still mired in woeful thinking that blames “Asians” for the crimes directly encouraged by the “perfect” behaviour of Mohammed. It’s quite clear that the EDL leadership gets this and its the only widely spread source for information about this for most people. Just see, for example, the article on their website: “Mohammed made me do it” relating to the real underlying reason why there are a shocking number of pedophiliac cases involving gangs of muslims abusing non muslim teenage girls. But the EDL is kept down by the media and the government which both have clearly tried to destroy it’s founders and the organisation itself.
That doesn’t mean I can accept anything within the EDL if the target is Islam, I can’t. But I still feel that the best way to fight the negative influence of Islam on the life of Kuffars in England and allow increasing numbers of people to see the true nature of the threat against Israel and the Jews, lies with people like me inside the EDL as a positive influence rather than outside.
About the Author
Brian of London is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Since making aliyah in 2009, Brian has blogged at Israellycool. Brian's interests include world peace and an end to world hunger. Besides blogging here, Brian of London now writes for PJ Media. Brian of London also hosted Shire Network NewsFiled Under: General
It would help if you would give a summary of what was going on and the different sides before ocmmenting on it. It is hard for me (and I assume many others) to get a handle on what you aretalking about. Kind of trying to get my news firsthand from B'sheva or LATMA (I mean the non-satirical parts).
My thoughts exactly. I would prefer hearing about this through a dramatic retelling in the style of a Latin American telenovella or an American soap opera. Trying to capture its riveting nature through a guest blog post is inadequate to do the story justice.
I agree with the Latin telenovella. Time consuming but fun.
A nice LATMA song will do.
What made Roberta quit?
That is the question!
Normally I like reading Brian but I'm not convinced there was strong reasoning for writing this.
There is a lot about this article I just can't agree with and to be honest I'm not sure that Israellycool is necessarily the place for the EDL argument when the connection with pro-Israel advocacy is slightly tenuous and undeniably low on their agenda.
I asked Brian to write something about the EDL given recent developments.
I understand that. The thing about the EDL is that they ARE controversial and for very good reason. They attract some really unsavoury elements and their efforts to weed them out have so far been virtually non-existent. The only conclusion that I can make from that is that they aren't really bothered by it.
The problem with this is that essentially in the public consciousness they discredit anything they come into contact with and that's why in my view they aren't worth getting involved with and they especially aren't worth advocating for.
Please understand though Dave, I wouldn't presume what to do with your blog but I would hate to see you tarred with the same brush simply because this blog has seemingly offered the odd supportive word.
Essentially I agree with the reasoning behind why the EDL was ostensibly set up but I can't bring myself to support a group that attract the sort of elements they do when it seems they aren't bothered.
[...] Brian of London said: "Pamela is one of the stalwarts of the counter Jihad. She’s doing great work over in [...]
Incredibly, Europe (including the UK) have yet to wake up to the peril they are in. The Islamists are quietly spreading their extremist doctrines, using a vicious mix of dissimulation and schoolyard bully tactics to do so. The "normal" Muslims are brow-beaten into silence and acquiescence with choice suras and the fabled promise of the Caliphate to come.
While EDL are certainly strange bedfellows, they do recognize the danger and are willing to call a spade a spade (absolutely no pun intended).
Brian, you should keep your eyes and ears open, but I agree with your stance at this point in time. I have fond memories of England and I hope it survives the Jihad.
[...] was admitted, endorsed, recognized and a promise adduced by Tommy Robinson to fix it.”And Brian of London said: “Pamela is one of the stalwarts of the counter Jihad. She’s doing great work over in [...]
I really wish someone would have psoted a clariifcation.
Meanwhile, all I can say is that (historically) when the peasents were, er, revolting, it would have been nice if they had denounced anti-semitism instead of making it their chief cause. I can't judge EDL, but we've seen worse.
that (historically) when the peasents were, er, revolting,
lol
I had no choice. If I hadn't posted it, someone else would have commented it. It was a pre-emptive strike.
(I can presume you are very young, very sheltered, or not in the U.S.)
I laughed because you hit the nail on the head, and I think you meant to type "peasants"
Yes, but this IS what is happening in Europe with the Muslims. It is undoubtedly true that the depravity that Europe has descended into is leading many to Islam.
The problem is what is mixed with – anti-semitism (specifically in Europe, not the U.S.) and belief in things that are not so (an issue in the U.S. also – massacre in Jenin, the Protocols, the Blood Libel).
We Jews have seen this many times before, from the pagan "comrades" in Parthian Babylonia, to various forms of Christianity, Islam, and Atheism. Plus groups claiming (perhaps falsely) to represent Muslims, such as CAIR in the US, an offshoot of Hamas.
An extremely egregious example is the young French Jew who was slowly tortured to death by an entire section of a French Muslim neighborhood.
From your postings, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Gellar and Moore are about their ego's,nothing more.
Im a very proud member of the EDL and as far as im concerned the EDL is not part of some idiotic global anti jihadist movement,we are about the UK/England,well that's a shocker given our name,THE ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE!!!
Gellar is a joke,she like Moore seems to think that she is in charge of all groups that are against Islam,newsflash girls,you ain't!!
I don't give a toss as to whether Gellar,Spencer or the idiot Moore supports the EDL,we were never part of your pathetic groups anyway,your groups are all mouth.
SIOA,what a joke,what do you do??
Gellar is a joke on tv and only has stock phrases to put out,with such an annoying accent that it almost want's you to join any group that is opposed to the stupid bint.
Now we know.
Now you know what?
He forgets to mention that Roberta fucked everyone off by insulting our troops and trying to link us with extremist groups, she jumped before she was pushed and then went screaming nazis to Geller who then issues her statement basically spouting Moore's crap and Spencer (odds on he's fucking geller) like a poodle posts it on his blog
Tommy then issues a statement saying EDL was founded for Israel which fucked a lot of people off and now Geller is making threats to get EDL shut down.
Geller, Spencer and Moore and any other foreigners who think they can use EDL to push their own agendas need to be fucked off.
You don't exactly help your point with the anglo-saxon terminology.
Shy Guy, tell me..when you get up, do you have fleas ?
I'll gloat now, but I promise not to when Geert Wilders shows his true colours too
I promise not to gloat when we kicked you and your filthy cult out of the west!!
Trinovante
The western civilisation owes it's existence to Islam. As Robert Briffault said in "The Making of Humanity"
“It is highly probable that but for the Arabs modern European civilization would never have arisen at all; it is absolutely certain that but for them, it would not have assumed that character which has enabled it to transcend all previous phases of evolution. For although there is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive influence of Islamic culture is not traceable, nowhere is it so clear and momentous as in the genesis of that power which constitutes the paramount distinctive force of the modern world and the supreme source of its victory-natural science and the scientific spirit.”
The Foundation for Science Technology and Civilisation http://www.fstc.org.uk/
The taqiyya drivel never ends. Islam, the religion of intellectual theft:
What Arab Civilization??
No more than Mohamed the butcher woke up with crab lice after his myriad of sexcapades.
Shy Guy, the Prophet didn’t have crab lice and there is nothing wrong with sexcapades, at least he didn't lie down with idolatorous women unlike Suleyman bin Dawood's sexcapades.
In any case, don’t judge if you don’t try
I wasn’t talking of you laying down with women in orgies anyway, (Jim from Iowa don’t get any idea’s here, as I didn’t mean men either) !
What I meanttttttttt wasssssssss…your so called “experts on Islam”, or “Jihad fighters” or “jihad watch” or whatever else you call them. Geller, Spencer…EDL..Nazi’s ……LOL …….Charles Johnson.…..Bwa ha hahaha ………
Ummm, another question: How long before Wilders shows his true colours?
The only liar here is you. That's always your resort.
@ Shyguy
The question was:
How long before Wilders shows his true colours?
Wilders has consistently shown his true colors all these years:
This would be unlike your barbarian prophet Mohamed, who when he couldn't convince more than 150 people to believe his nuttery, resorted to pillaging, murder and rape to achieve power. You know – the Islamic way!
Shy Guy, no, whomever fabricated that about the Prophet was flattering him/herself. Why do you slander when the the truth is more pretty!
W. Montgomery Watt in 'Muhammad at Mecca,' Oxford, 1953.
His readiness to undergo persecution for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as a leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems that it solves.
Arthur Glyn Leonard in 'Islam, Her Moral and Spiritual Values'
It was the genius of Muhammad, the spirit that he breathed into the Arabs through the soul of Islam that exalted them.
Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in 'History of the Saracen Empire,' London, 1870
"The greatest success of Mohammad's life was effected by sheer moral force”
Wilders has consistently shown his true colors all these years:
You’re avoiding answering!
I wasn’t asking about the past, I’m sure you’re aware of his funding from American far right groups. I was talking of the future when his own interests are threatened. I shall bookmark this link, and plan to return to it, when that time comes !
See what I mean?
Brian you just committed treason. Do you get it? We’re not here to be used for foreign agendas, and no the money will not buy us.
and no the money will not buy us.
That's not true Squarepeg,
Your group went to Canada to get funds from Islamophobic Jews, but most were too smart to ally themselves with you. They can see opportunists. You're left with the chaff, (for want of a better word) Ironically, the Jews you get, are those in need of funds themselves lol
By the way, most Jews are on our side. you're left with the errr ….Brian's and Geller's and Roberta's of the world..lol
No such thing as an Islamaphobic Jew. All Jews have a rational fear of Islam. The whole religion is centred on Jew hatred. Try making sense.
Squarepeg
The whole religion is centred on Jew hatred.Try making sense.
You want me to make sense? Fine
That is some ego you have… assuming it's centered around Jews.. Islam is CENTRED on nothing, anything or anyone other than God
Allah not God, spot the lefty.
Most Jews are on the side of starting a second holocaust? Doubt it.
Please expand. This is counter-intuitive to me. The Rapture crowd wants all Jews to either die or convert to Christianity. Most Muslims want the Jews out of the Middle East. But why would most Jews want to see a second holocaust?
This is more about Jewish dirty laundry
Let me put it this way,America and Israel do not tell us in the EDL what to do.
We are the people of the UK and we will decide what we want and who we support,Gellar supports her own ego and i for one am happy that the drippy cow has distanced herself from our cause,i dare you Gellar to call me a fucking Nazi??
Gellar like Moore is best dismissed from memory,they are spiteful odious characters who are too full of themselves and if Spencer want's to jump on the pyre then he will be no loss at all.
We are the EDL,we have fuck all to do with Gellars or Spencers web sites or views,so for the idiots to try and condemn us in any way just goes to show how much they are up their own arses,WE DON'T CARE,the EDL will be here long after you have gone,do you know why? We are a movement of the people by the people,unlike you,we ain't in it for money or glory.
TOSSERS!!!
trinovante, was your comment addressed to me ? I'm Muslim.
You need to drop your nasty tone to commenters on the site. You are a guest here, remember that.
It's difficult to take anyone seriously when they throw around words like 'muppet' and 'retard' and yet seemingly don't know that "F*ck off" isn't a question.
It's sad that you can say that you represent any organisation but I think you have proven my earlier point quite well.
Making ad hominem attacks is not going to win you any arguments. The fact that you think that this is a perfectly acceptable way to behave tells me a lot about your mentality as does your inability to express yourself without constantly swearing.
I believe that Islam is incompatible with the way I live my life in the country where I was born and I don't believe in compromising on any of that. I don't believe that it is right that people should come to Britain and not want to fully take part in British culture and our lifestyle.
I often disagree with Chayma on nearly everything he/she says but at least he/she has the decency to behave even if they are probably trolling.
The way you behave does not represent me, my country or the ideals we are supposed to live by. Being a 'little Englander' is not the same as being British.
How do you feel about "Little Britain?" As an American, it makes me feel a whole lot better about "Hee Haw."
I dislike it immensely, Jim.
True story, I met the tall bloke (Walliams) in, of all places, Universal studios Florida in the Marvel comic shop with Jonathan Ross who you probably haven't heard of but I think his wife wrote the script for the movie version of 'kick-ass'.
In real life he's quite funny but I just don't like his TV show.
I've never seen Hee-haw, should I be thankful?
By comparison to "Hee Haw," "Little Britain" would be considered high-brow comedy.
STV
I believe that Islam is incompatible with the way I live my life in the country
Why do you think that? A tiny minority (which Muslims are) contributes disproportionately (over £31 billion) to the UK economy, are wealthier and better educated than the native population, though the native population is becoming Muslim too in Europe as many British and Europeans are converting to Islam because they like what they see (moral code). That is something postive not negative. Christianity is dying but Islam is rising. It wouldn't be if it were something to fear.
Muslim Power 100 http://www.power100.co.uk/index.php?id=22
There are 10, 000 Muslim millionaires in Britain. Together with others in the Muslim community they contribute some £31 billion to the country’s economy.
The Muslim Power 100 is a positive statement of integration, achievement and contribution to Britain. Lords, entrepreneurs, financiers, scientists, lawyers and community leaders have dominated the list in the past.
Away from financial contribution there are those Muslims who do sterling humanitarian work, are involved in vital medical research and are major figures in all aspects of civic society.
I'm sorry, you can't go on about 'propaganda' and then dish this rubbish up. Forbes struggle to pick out the number of millionaires by nationality, the idea that you could comfortably predict the number of millionaires by RELIGION is preposterous.
Not only that but you could talk about the huge number of muslims on benefits, the huge number of muslims who are not integrating or who support violence against our people. Where are the muslim counter protests against these muslims?
One of the people mentioned on your link is Yasmin Alibhai-Brown who is a despicable person. She has espoused racist views and writes frequently against the proudest aspects of British tradition, history and life. She is, in many ways, the perfect embodiment of what I'm talking about.
I think you are missing the point, it is not Muslims as individuals that I am saying are incompatible but the customs and beliefs of the religion they follow. The oppression of women is of particular concern.
I find your statement that muslims are educated to a higher standard than the British people a little ridiculous, if taken a certain way it could even be construed as slightly supremacist.
There is a place for Islam but it's in the Middle East. There is no justification for having Parallel cultures vying for position in Europe only for them to clash at a point in the future and that is almost certainly what will happen, we only have to look at the Balkans to see that.
@STV
Forbes struggle to pick out the number of millionaires by nationality, the idea that you could comfortably predict the number of millionaires by RELIGION is preposterous.
It’s no “prediction”, these are facts publicised elsewhere. Forbes doesn’t bring religion into their annual list, they only need ask if they wanted to.
Muslim top 100 list is published http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6351057.stm
Our leading Muslims: Power list celebrates the top 100 players boosting the nation http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain…
England may become Muslim state
15.06.2007 http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/93437-0/
It is worthy of note that the number of native British citizens converting to Islam has been growing too. Many of them decide to change their religion in the endeavour to improve their financial well-being. The role of Muslim individuals in the British society has been getting more and more important recently. Muslims’ incomes are higher as opposed to those of Christians. There are a lot of Muslim real estate owners in Great Britain. Recent opinion polls conducted among British Muslims aged from 25 to 34 showed that an average Muslim person makes up to 25 pounds sterling ($50,000) a year, which is a bigger number in comparison with an average Briton.
“There is no justification for having Parallel cultures vying for position in Europe only for them to clash at a point in the future and that is almost certainly what will happen, we only have to look at the Balkans to see that.”
Islam is not a culture. The Balkans conflict had it’s origins in WW1 and was NOT rooted not in religion, it was a nationlistic conflict much like Ireland/England and it’s Catholic/Protestant divide. That divide was territorial even though the conflict had religious overtones, similar to other European territorial disputes.
Not only that but you could talk about the huge number of muslims on benefits, the huge number of muslims who are not integrating or who support violence against our people. Where are the muslim counter protests against these muslims?
Those who support “violence against our people” are a tiny minority. Counter protests are not necessarily the best way to deal with a problem. I might remind you that most of the intelligence that helps in nailing down these deviants comes from the Muslim community. The biggest benefit recipients are not Muslims, but East Europeans and single mothers. The integration problem in Europe amongst certain groups is due to the social system.
@ STV continued..
The oppression of women is of particular concern.
You’re confusing cultural habits with religious ones. Women are not oppressed in Islam as is evidenced by the numbers of western women choosing Islam.
The new face of Islam http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-360513…
By Nick Compton
Like Caroline, many of these converts are from solid middle-class backgrounds, have successful careers, enjoy active social lives and are fundamentally happy with their lot.
There is a place for Islam but it's in the Middle East”
Try saying that to British and European converts to Islam, who outnumber the immigrants by the way. Islam is not a culture it’s a religion, with no borders and encompasses every race and country on the planet. The 56 OIC member states are scattered across the globe, Russia (40% Muslim) already is an honory member state.
The Islamification of Britain: record numbers embrace Muslim faith http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/th…
The number of Britons converting to Islam has doubled in 10 years. Why? Jerome Taylor and Sarah Morrison investigate
Islamic Britain lures top people
Nicholas Hellen and Christopher Morgan The Sunday Times – Britain February 22, 2004 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1010…
MORE than 14,000 white Britons have converted to Islam after becoming disillusioned with western values, according to the first authoritative study of the phenomenon.
Some of Britain’s top landowners, celebrities and the offspring of senior Establishment figures have embraced the strict tenets of the Muslim faith.
That isn't an 'authoratative study'. That's a bloke making presumptions based upon half formed census data. Firstly, according to the census, I'm a Jedi.
Secondly, it takes no account of immigration or emigration and thirdly there is no statement of practice or methodology or the period of time over which results indicate this conversion took place.
The fact that they claim to have only collected information on apparent converts to Islam is highly suspicious, incredibly doubtable and an obvious sign of bias. Why not also information on converts from Islam or to Christianity? Why just whites?
14,000 is a highly unlikely figure and it's telling that they can't be more exact than that.
Either way, people do things for all manner of reasons, some people play guitar, some jump canyons in rocket cars, some people lock their daughters in their basements and have secret families and some people will convert to a religion like Islam.
It means nothing, people aren't rushing out to convert and it doesn't make Islam compatible with British life, because it isn't.
Again, propaganda. You can't seriously be using PRAVDA as a source for your news, that's ridiculous. The average wage for a working age male in the UK is over £26,000 so they already got that wrong.
The UK is not becoming a muslim country, that's stupid. People are not rushing out to convert, it simply isn't happening. I know because I live here.
The conflicts in the Balkans all had their roots in cultural strife. That's an undeniable fact and was as clear to anyone who was sent there as part of the NATO force. The conflict in Northern Ireland is also heavily set in cultural conflict. The idea that a cultural/religious conflict can't become nationalist is rubbish, otherwise there wouldn't be any muslim countries.
Islam absolutely has practices which can be considered cultural including core religious beliefs.
Steve, not when my people are the target.
Who are your "people"?
Anti-semites
Charles Johnson'over at Little Green Footballs has written several pieces about this.
British Branch of the 'Anti-Jihad' Movement in Full Meltdown http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/38820_Bri…
Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller are oddly silent
Wed Jun 29, 2011
Pamela Geller Makes Excuses for Supporting Nazis http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/38822_Pam…
Pamela Geller has released a ludicrous attempt to distance herself from the extreme right wing English Defence League, the violent gang of racists and neo-Nazis that she’s been defending as “true patriots:” EDL Shake-up – Atlas Shrugs
Pamela Geller's Anti-Muslim Circus in Full Nuclear Meltdown http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/38828_Pam…
The “anti-jihad” (read: “anti-Muslim”) blogosphere is in full nuclear meltdown today, after the shocking revelation that there are Nazis in the English Defence League.
Who knew? Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller and Robert Spencer are now under attack from the rest of the anti-Muslim gang,
Chayma, I would be interested to know how you view each of these individuals: Pamela Geller; Robert Spencer; Charles Johnson and any others you care to mention. And not whether you agree with them (I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to that) but your assessment of how they approach the subject of radical Islam. And throw AussieDave into the mix if you don't mind.
Jim from Iowa,
about Geller and Spencer and debbie schlussul, they manufacture propoganda and lies. Most of the material on their sites about Islam and Muslims is lies and pure hate. Charles Johnson is a blogger, who after 9/11 went into shock and was an Islamophobe, then recovered. Geller and her crowd helped him recover, and since then she has been acting like a jilted lover. The fatal attraction syndrome. Just because he rejected their extremist ideology, (which he probably recognised as being not in America's best interest) she has had a knife in his back since then.
Unwittingly, Geller and Spencer are responsible for generating a lot of the buzz that leads to converts to Islam in the USA though that is not their intention. Robert Spencer was even warning his cretinous readers how not to fall for "Islam's deceptions in dawa" (hatip: Shy Guy:). First they propogate that we force people to convert, when that doesn't work they tell people how to avoid it's attraction.
About AussieDave, I don’t know anything about him save what I read here and that most of the material by his contributor Brian (especially about Islam and Muslims) is propoganda. Brian is either ignorant, or lies, I don't know which.
Charles Johnson is a serial liar, who cannot get his facts straight and will twist whatever ones there are to suit his agenda.
You're a farce, Mulsima Chayma.
Everyone makes online bloopers, and look who is talking, as if you're not a serial liar,
Feel free to show me where he lied in the 3 posts that I posted. Put up or shut up!
If you don't think Islam doesn't force people to convert, then you don't know your own history. At all.
Do you know WHY Maimonides was in Egypt?
Brian we get it! We know what the Jews are going through and we know why. A lot of us care and some of us don't and that is our god given right but our duty first and foremost is to OUR country and its people.
We understand why it is in our interests to forge ties globally with other like-minded groups but when that support is at the detriment of our movement we have no choice but to act in our own best interests and preserve our core following because to ignore the wishes of our people is to sign a death warrant and will almost certainly lead to the destruction of the EDL and we wont allow that to happen!
Things have been said and there are a lot of half-truths floating about from people who still have an agenda or a desire to cause disruption to those who they feel they have been wronged by. This is unfortunate and it needs to stop and some people need to grow up and face the truth and if they don't know what the truth is then they need to find out before they comment or arrive at any decisions.
There are no fringe or splinter groups in the EDL, there are no 'nazi's' or 'neo-fascists' just hardcore patriots who want what is best for us, our country and its people. Ever since the old forum closed, good people have been regularly silenced and have had their intelligence insulted for daring to question and as a result they have had to shout louder and louder in order to get a reasonable reply to perfectly reasonable questions. Some people with too much control haven't liked these questions and have tried to silence them and have gone out of their way to belittle or discredit the people asking them. And they dare to call us fascists?
It's a cliché I know but if you not a part of the solution then you're a part of the problem. This was never about sides!
If I have to choose, I'll take the EDL.
I'm a strong supporter of EDL and this idea that we are nazis put about by Geller, Spencer and Moore are a complete nonsense, I support Israels right to exist and I supported a Jewish division, until Ms Moore came along and linked us to an extremist group and her friend Robert came onto our forum and told an EDL women that she should be raped by a muslim and lots of other disgusting comments that no decent person would ever think of saying.
Ms Moore has now informed Jewish people in the UK that we are all nazis, so what chance now of a vibrant Jewish division.
Even the guy who helped set up the Jewish division is now being called a nazi and is banned. How bad is that.
Yes we EDLers are angry, too right we are, being branded nazis by our enemies but being branded nazis by our so call friends is an act of betrayal.