Bieberman
Aussie Dave | Oct 26, 2012 | 16 comments
The big political news here from Israel is that Israeli PM Binyamin “Bibi” Netanyahu’s party Likud and Avigdor Lieberman’s Yisrael Beiteinu have joined forces.
Some think a monster has been created.
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About the Author
An Australian immigrant to Israel, Aussie Dave has been blogging since early 2003.Filed Under: Aussie Dave
Politics can be a crazy business, but in Israel, it is incomprehenisble to us foreigners. I kind of get what Likud as a party is all about (right-of-center power structure who gives lip service to the two-state solution but will never really pursue it in deferrence to it’s religious party coalition members’ demands) but Yisrael Beitneinu – what are they all about (Russian identity anti-Arab nationalists with a strong secular orientation)? If this coalition is about diminishing the political power of the religious fanatics in Israel, then I suppose on balance that that is a good thing for Israel and for it’s relationship with the US and the rest of the world.
I doubt if the coalition by itself will diminish the power of the religious parties, but a recent series of corruption scandals just might. Since Israel is a Jewish state, separation is highly unlikely, but the sort of agreement that Costa Rica has with the Catholic Church might be the optimal. The Costa Rica government subsidizes certain Catholic institutions in exchange for the clergy staying out of politics.
Interesting. Ill have to read up on that. Things need to change in Israel. Costa Rica is one of the most libertarian countries in the world, with a strong, functioning libertarian party that has 3rd place in Parliament.
Jim you have no idea what you are talking about. Yisrael Beiteinu is so anti-Arab that it has an Arab MK among its 15.
I’m keenly interested in being educated on this subject by you or any other informed person. I admit that I struggle to fully understand Israeli politics. It does make me sad, though, to think that the Ron Paul poster in your bedroom is now faded and curling around the edges, much like Ron Paul himself.
Is he Druze? Msny Druze do not call themselves Arabs.
I am confused. Why is it specifically the religious parties that are stopping an agreement? What about the right-wing members of Likud itself? And actually, the more right-wing religious parties are less against the agreement, so it would seem your problem is with the “religious non-fanatics”. (Shas’ problem with an agreement stems more from it’s support among the non-Chareidi and non-religious populace.)
Where the heck are you getting your info from?
So you’re saying Shas is not religious in orientation? That’s news to me (and probably Bibi, too). What you or I consider reliable sources probably differ greatly. I get a lot of information from IsraellyCool, The Times of Israel and the Open Zion section of The Daily Beast website edited by Peter Beinart.
When you fervently believe that God gave all the land of Israel to the Jewish people, and you act on this belief through your politics, it is unlikely you will give much consideration to what the Arab population thinks or wants. This approach to problem solving by those in the religious parties makes the implementation of any kind of peace plan with the Arabs problematic for any Israeli government dependent for its survival on that segment of the political spectrum.
No, I am saying they are not right-wing in orientation, and to the extent that they are, it is largely due to the need to cater to their voters who are not religious or to those who are National Religious. The returning Aryeh Deri is currently being attacked on LATMA as a left-winger.
Regarding the second paragraph, it is an interesting view, but I wonder which Arab population you are referring to? My co-workers? The people who call us “the enemy”? Did it occur to you that as the party (officially) of Jews who escaped from Arab countries, they may not like or trust them very much?
The lack of trust is certainly understandable and the Palestinians historically have never been very good at making genuine efforts to make peace with the Jews. But what else are you going to do other than to make peace with your neighbors and make at least some of them an integral part of Israeli society (which is actually occurring inside the green line)? As much as I dislike Avigdor Lieberman, he looks like an improvement in political bedfellows over Moshe Feiglin (unless, of course, he snores).
I wish it were possible, but not with the current leadership.
Let me put it this way. You know how we Jews complain about being accused of being both Capitalists and Communists? Well, the Chareidi parties are accused by the Right of being too soft, then you come and claim we’re the ones stopping an agreement. This is a country where the terms “right” and “left” are not used for religion. because it doesn’t fit. You really think there is no secular Right?
No, the Chreidi partries are not stupid enough to accept the “Palestinian narrative”. But they are concerned about the danger. Let’s put it this way – what if you believed (as I do) that Israel won every single major war only because of dvine intervention – AND you believe that there is no guarantee it will happen next time (heaven forbid)? Would that lead you to be hard-line?
On the other hand, we aren’t stupid.
The Chareidi parties, not being nationalist, tend to put a higher value on “danger to life” versus giving up land (as did the late Rabbi Solveichick – Rabbi Gershonson in “the Chosen”, the leader of the American religious Zionists), although others will say – and I tend to agree – that giving over territory is the greatest danger to life there is.
And believe it or not, the need to respect the rights of the Arabs (those that are real, and not left-wing fantasies) do come into play in the decisions of the various religious parties.
Im not sure what to make of this. I just hope it works.
Last poll shows this to be colossal failure; Bibi, ahead in every poll, is now dead-even. Bibi has managed to snatch defeat fromthe jaws of victory at the very last moment.
We will see what happens next.
The most important question – do I still get a day off work on January 22?
Two new polla – all over the board! There will be no way to tell for a bit. I WISH there were polls with larger sample sizes. Do you know that the polls with larger sample sizes tend more to show ROmney ahead.
KnessetJeremy, quoting “Idiot”, points out that the combined party gets a lot more public money and TV time.