Comments on: Saturday Night Documentary: The Rabbi’s Daughter

By: tom

tom — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:51:34 +0000

Do you even know what it means not to keep Shabbat?
Unfortunately most Jews (even religious ones) don’t know the importance of Shabbat.
The Chafetz Chaim, who was known for his book on the laws of Lashon Hara (bad speech), writes very strict about not speaking bad about other people. (yes, saying true things that apply about someone)
He mentions though that there’s no obligation, if the person doesn’t keep Shabbat. Needless to say that it’s not good to speak bad about someone, the point is only if it would have the same punishment/consequences as if the person would keep Shabbat (and all the other Mitzvot). See the introduction to the 3rd part of Mishna B’rura.

By: tom

tom — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:43:33 +0000

I’m not going to go into all details, because it will render this comment too long.
Two points: Same gender relations (for men) is punished with “karet” which means “to be cut off”, basically he is not considered a part of “the nation of Israel” (Am Yisrael). The same thing is eating Chametz in Pessach, eating on Yom Kippur, intermarrying close realtives (Mother, Sister, Daughter, Daughter in law, etc.) The list goes on and on.
Not reproducing is one of the essential things. It states in Shabbat (Talmud Bavli, 33a, if I’m not mistaking) that a person will be asked three question: “Did you engage yourself with reproduction” (not did you have children), “Did you trade with faith” and “Did you anticipate Mashiach”.
So it’s not just “two mitzvot” he doesn’t observe. It’s a big sin, just like desecrating Shabbat is much worse than eating pork, for example.

And yes, if a person does Tshuva (repent) truthfully and leaves the sin, Hashem forgives him.

By: spindok

spindok — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:00:00 +0000

I cant remember which Rabbi, but I read something one of them said to a Gay congregant. As I recall it was something like “Judaism has 613 mitzvot. You are not fulfilling two of those (commandment againat gay sex and not reproducing). That leaves you 611 which should keep you busy enough.”

Might I remind Unplugged above that a hateful comment such as yours is by far the worse sin. Someone who has gay sex, eats treif, or violates the Sabbath commits a sin between man and G-d and for which G-d will forgive if you repent.

Your sin is between man and his fellow man. G-d alone cannot forgive you for that. You must seek forgiveness from those you have harmed with your lashon hara.

By: Angie

Angie — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 01:24:19 +0000

“They are Jewish souls, which should be nourished, not rejected”
This is a fairly recent concept. Not so long ago those same Jewish souls should be executed for this same acts.

By: Inessa

Inessa — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:06:10 +0000

I meant beautiful in the sense that they have beauty as people, not in the sense of physical attractiveness. I don’t have any specific sympathy towards them, but to me, this is a story about children of orthodox families, who reject this way of life for themselves, as adults. They don’t stop loving their parents or respecting them (though they disrespect them to a degree). The parents are not happy with their choices, but they love them, nevertheless. They are their children. They are Jewish souls, which should be nourished, not rejected.

By: Angie

Angie — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 20:44:58 +0000

Maybe your sympathy towards them is blurring your opinion.
One of them is in a relationship without getting married, they don’t eat kosher food and desecrate shabbat. For a rabbi this is a big deal.
Also…… none of them is particularly beautiful (and I don’t think this is a matter of taste) and I fail to see any real “contributions to the world”. They are just living their lives, like the rest of us.

And I don’t see any confidence in them. Quite the opposite. Rav Avner’s daughter is childish and immature and one of the others strikes me as depressive. They really look damaged.

By: Angie

Angie — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 20:25:04 +0000

Have you read the Bible?

By: Inessa

Inessa — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:30:57 +0000

If the rabbis rejected their own children just for rejecting orthodoxy, what sort of an example would that be for their communities and congregants?

By: Inessa

Inessa — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:26:49 +0000

It’s interesting, in that it explores families, expectations, and pressures of being the child of a prominent, public figure. Some of the aspects are less about the daughters rejecting an orthodox lifestyle, and more about them themselves being scrutinized as public property, like celebrities’ children. Also, while it may be controversial, none of these girls have done anything so shocking or irreperable, as to be rejected by their parents. There is no intermarriage, homosexuality, criminal activity, just some different choices, made by adults. These young ladies are confident, beautiful, and are making positive contributions to the world.
The parents love their daughters; the daughters love the parents, but don’t emulate them. No one has rejected anyone. Plenty of frum families’ children choose to be non religious. Sometimes they come back.
I found the one girl a bit irritating because she made her choices, but she seems to be expecting the parents to be happy about it…, she seems to blame them for not supporting her choices, and oh thinks about how it’s hard for her, not how it must feel for the parents. Come to think about it, that’s what’s missing in this film: it doesn’t explore how the daughters think their parents feel. It deals with the girls’ emotions, their stresses growing up.
Here is what I found controversial: is it weird that the guy wears a kipa in a non kosher restaurant?

By: Dougie

Dougie — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:47:42 +0000

I honestly didn’t like it. I know this is supposed to be depicting the truth in the most natural way possible, but, of course, it involves some acting. The ‘performances’ are contrived and extremely artifical and the girls seem flat and superficial. To me, the deepest moment is when one of the girls talks about the (lack of) relation with her father. That explains a lot.
Most public figures and leaders end up neglecting their immediate family because of their commitment to the community.
A couple of days ago I saw a show on Rav Ovadiya and his sons talk about how absent he was — although, in their opinion, a great and loving father. This particular girl wouldn’t say the same. She seems sad and disenchanted with life.