Morality Isn’t Debatable

murdered boyI struggled with the decision to write something about the most recent developments in the killing of the Arab boy in Israel. I believe that there is enough garbage in the media used to demonize Jewish people and the state of Israel without adding to it.

But that’s when I noticed something I believe to be incredibly important. Even the most angry and vengeful of my Jewish friends, people who were incredibly incensed about the murder of the three Jewish boys recently, were still all saying the exact same thing – that killing kids was wrong, that murder was against everything Jews believe in and that WHOEVER DID IT needed to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Now think about that. Even after the murder of three completely innocent Jewish kids, these people were still willing to condemn the murder of an innocent Arab boy. Even after Jewish people were arrested they maintained that stance, because for them, morality isn’t debatable.

Even on social media, I had someone tell me that there is no moral side in a war. I do not believe that. I believe that there can be, and in this case there absolutely is, a moral side. The moral side is the one who condemns killing of innocent people, that does everything possible to avoid killing civilians. the side that doesn’t excuse wrongdoing but prosecutes it even when it is its own people. The side that never accepts blame, that teaches a doctrine of hatred and racism, that glorifies the killing of women and children and pays perpetrators of horrific events a salary based on how many Jews they killed, cannot in any way be considered morally equivalent, at least not by any decent human being.

Many people don’t know, this but after the massacre of Arabs by other Arabs in the camps of Sabra and Shattila, Jews felt so strongly about it that they demonstrated in the streets in Israel. This despite it literally being their allies killing their enemies. They didn’t hand out candy or cakes, they didn’t name a soccer field after anyone, THEY IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNED THE IMMORAL KILLING OF CIVILIANS. I remember reading that as a kid and being confused. Why would anyone be upset at the death of their enemies?

I have friends who blog, and some of them have written about this, not because they are anti Israel but because they are pro human beings. Unlike the other side, they do not shy away from culpability, they do not hide from the ugly things that even “our side” is capable of. I have yet to see one person who I consider to be my friend, say anything other than extremely powerful condemnation and expressions of deep sadness that this happened. Maybe being Jewish and having undergone so many tragedies makes them more empathetic, but it really did make me absolutely certain that I am on the right side of this conflict.

This is why the shock and anger at the even the idea that Jews might have been responsible, wasn’t one of denial but of outrage, because it does seem outrageous to anyone who is Jewish or even who, like me, knows Jewish people. Most of us didn’t even consider the possibility of it being Jews, simply because its anathema to Jews to kill civilians. Even now, we do not want to believe that Jewish people did this. I will wait until I have more evidence, but sadly it appears that it was Jewish people who committed this crime.

I hope they find the people who did this, and just as I hope they find and punish the murderers of those three Israeli boys, I hope they find and punish the murderers of this Arab boy. Not out of quid pro quo, but because killing children is wrong and a strong message needs to be sent.

We don’t pick and choose when to be moral.

About Ryan Bellerose

A member of the indigenous Metis people, Ryan grew up in the far north of Alberta, Canada with no power nor running water. Ryan was unsure if his real name was "Go get water!" or "Go get wood!" In his free time, Ryan plays Canadian Rules Football , reads books, does advocacy work for indigenous people and does not live in an Igloo.

Facebook Comments

  • קייתלין מרטין

    Six young Jewish extremists have been arrested and one has confessed. I hope these young men, if they are indeed responsible, spend the rest of their miserable lives in prison. Our extremists are no better than their extremists. Our extremists do Israel far more harm than theirs. Their actions become a weapon to be used in the PR war against us.

    • devilinpgh

      Well, one thing’s for sure: if they’re convicted (and based on the bloodthirst of the international press, they will be convicted, whether they did it or not), they will spend the rest of their lives in prison. There will be no prisoner swap for them, unlike for Arab terrorists.

      • קייתלין מרטין

        Israeli courts don’t convict their citizens based on the international press, which is often held in disdain in Israel. They convict or acquit based on the rule of law.

        • unpluggged

          This is the best joke I’ve ever heard.

        • ahad_ha_amoratsim

          In the US, wrongful convictions have been known to occurbecause the police and prosecutors are eager to resolve the case and restore public confidence. High profile cases pose a special risk. Sometimes those miscarriages of justice
          are not discovered until the defendant has served decades of prison time. Can we be confident that Israel’s justice system is so much more infallible and so much less politicized?

          • קייתלין מרטין

            Nobody is saying the Israeli police or justice system are infallible. What I did say is that the foreign press does not dictate anything and that, within the limits of human fallibility Israel, like the US, works based on the rule of law.

            unplugged: Perhaps you are the bad joke here.

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      They are not extermists. They are soccer hooligans, part of a gang that shows up to Beitar gameds with “Death to Arabs” banners. Apart from that, I agree with everything you said, and will add that if Jews committed this crime, it is a true desecration of The Name.
      Which is why we do not and can not fight the way Hard Little Machine suggested.

      • Alice Sadoun

        micro brain and troll !!!

        • ahad_ha_amoratsim

          Please be more specific. Are you calling me names for disagreeing with Kaitlin Martin or for disagreeing with Hard Little Machine?

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      According to Arutz 7, three of the young men who were arrested were ordered released. The article quotes their lawyer thusly:

      “We are glad that what was claimed regarding the suspects whom we met has been proven to be untrue,” said Kveler. “Three citizens were brutally arrested although they have no connection to the act. Regarding the three additional suspects, we will respond after we have had the chance to meet them.”
      I hope that the scum who committed this murder are arrested, convicted and severely punished, and soon. That also means that I hope the police do not grab the wrong people in their eagerness to put this shameful murder to rest.

  • Hard Little Machine

    You’re absolutely right. And if you show no mercy you will be shown none. It’s now Arabs; 25,315, Jews; 1 (or 2).

    • קייתלין מרטין

      Are you kidding me? Someone either doesn’t know their history or is trying to whitewash it. Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Arabs at the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron in 1994.

      Eden Natan-Zada killed four Arab civillians in 2005. Prime Minister Sharon described him as a “bloodthirsty terrorist”.

      Yaakov Teitel only has the blood of two Arabs on his hands (convicted in 2011) but he certainly tried to kill more people than that.

      Do you really want me to continue? I can, you know.

      What separates us from the Palestinians is that most Israelis condemn such acts while the Arabs glorify them and treat the perpetrators as heroes. Our extremists are few; theirs are many. However, we do have our own terrorists and they are no better than the Arabs they hate.

      What kind of Jew burns a child alive? The thought of it makes me sick.

      • same1

        Baruch Goldstein is a hero to many Israelis and his tomb was a popular gathering place for these vile nut cases. Many now rampage through the streets and scrawl “Arabs to the gas chambers” on the walls of Hebron. This long predated the latest tit for tat killings. It is a part of who the Israelis are. Personally, I see no difference between the 94% of Israeli who applauded the Cast Lead massacre in which 400 children were butchered by the IDF with the Goldstein crowd.

        The Baruch Goldsteins ARE Israel. They are the government and they are the people, with a minuscule number of Israelis (Amira Hass, Gideon Levy, etc) serving as the contradiction that proves the rule.

        • walt kovacs

          not so many

          a handful is not many

          cast lead was not a massacre….it was an operational response to hamas continuing to fire rockets directed at civilian targets

          you see no difference because you are a filthy jew hating bastard and think jews do not have the right to defend themselves

          well we do and we will and you can eat dirt

          • same1

            I think it’s wonderful that EVEN on a site set up for the express purpose of demonstrating Israel’s moral superiority, the defenders of this vile filth state simply can not help spreading their poisonous, racist venom. They are not outraged in the least that an Arab boy was burned alive, but they understand the PR implications and race to try to morally distance themselves from the killing. Meanwhile, thousands of civilians have been massacred by Israel without the slightest objection. Quite the contrary. Israelis applaud these murders. Only a few of these murders are out of vengeance and unadulterated hatred for Arabs, by the way. Most are routine matters of Israeli policy. They want the Arab land and don’t want the Arab people. So you either expel them or you murder them, and that is what Israel has been doing since 1948. The entire world sees it. The entire human rights community (including Bt’Selem) sees it. Ha’aretz sees it and reports on it but the supporters of Israel refuse to see it. They are the pure ones, or “God’s Chosen” as they repulsively refer to themselves. After awhile, it just becomes laughable, so they set up these stupid sites where blind Jews huddle together proclaiming their moral superiority. Meanwhile, Jews of character in the US and even Israel, reject the depraved barbarities of this colonial junkyard called Israel and understand well that real Jewish values have nothing to do with bloated criminals like Netanyahu or his foreign minister—an ex-nightclub bouncer from Moldova.

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            Jabotinsky said it best. Sometimes the only answer is to tell them to go to hell.

          • ahad_ha_amoratsim

            This same troll sane1 showed up at Elder of Tziyon claiming to be Jewish and spouting every cliched anti-Israel canard you can think of. He’s claiming that Israel gives soldiers medals for burning Arab kids to death with white phosphorus, but that he can’t be a Jew-hater because Noam Chomsky, B’Tselem, Desmond Tutu and Jimmie Carter agree with him that Israel is an evil racist state.
            http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-open-condemnation-of-murder-of.html#comment-1473144405

        • קייתלין מרטין

          99.9% of Israelis, maybe more, were horrified by what Baruch Goldstein did. He is a hero to a tiny group of extremists and those people are not Israel. What you have posted here is a vile lie.

          The death toll in Operation Cast Lead, according to Hamas, was around 600, mostly fighters, the same number given by the IDF. There were no 400 children killed and those that were killed were human shields used by Hamas. According to international law responsibility for their deaths belongs tp Hamas.

          Operation Cast Lead was a military operation to stop the incessant rocketing of Israeli civilian targets, another gross violation of human rights law. Israel’s response was an appropriate wartime response. If the current shelling from Gaza continues you will see more of the same. Israel never starts wars but does defend its citizens.

          Again, your ridiculous equivocation and falsehoods just prove you know how to recite anti-Israel propaganda. It has no basis in reality.

          • same1

            “The death toll in Operation Cast Lead, according to Hamas, was around 600, mostly fighters, the same number given by the IDF. There were no 400 children killed and those that were killed were human shields used by Hamas. According to international law responsibility for their deaths belongs tp Hamas.”

            You pick this up from your friends at the “Baruch Goldstein for Prime Minister” bake sale?

            “Today (Wed. Sept 9th) Israeli human rights group B’Tselem published its findings on the number of Palestinians and Israelis killed in Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. According to B’Tselem’s research, Israeli security forces killed 1,387* Palestinians during the course of the three-week operation. Of these, 773 did not take part in the hostilities, including 320 minors and 109 women over the age of 18. Of those killed, 330 took part in the hostilities, and 248 were Palestinian police officers, most of whom were killed in aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the operation.

            B’Tselem’s figures, the result of months of meticulous investigation and cross-checks with numerous sources, sharply contradict those published by the Israeli military. Israel stated that 1,166 Palestinians were killed in the operation and that 60% of them were members of Hamas and other armed groups. According to the military, a total of 295 Palestinians who were “not involved” in the fighting were killed. As the military refused to provide B’Tselem its list of fatalities, a comparison of names was not possible. However, the blatant discrepancy between the numbers is intolerable. For example, the military claims that altogether 89 minors under the age of 16 died in the operation. However, B’Tselem visited homes and gathered death certificates, photos, and testimonies relating to all 252 children under 16, and has the details of 111 women over 16 killed.

            Behind the dry statistics lie shocking individual stories. Whole families were killed; parents saw their children shot before their very eyes; relatives watched their loved ones bleed to death; and entire neighborhoods were obliterated.”

            Those gosh darn “anti-semites” at Bt’Selem again!!

          • mzk1_1

            Of course, some of the children WERE fighters, given that the definition of children includes 16- and 17-year olds.

          • unpluggged

            Baruch Goldstein may have done terrible things that I wouldn’t approve of, but I am also unable to condemn him. He did what he did. And the fact that he was lynched on the spot instead of being handed over to police, proves that what he did wasn’t wrong. It was a terrible thing to do, even unnecessary, but not necessarily wrong.

            • קייתלין מרטין

              Murdering 29 people at prayer in cold blood isn’t wrong? Are you completely sick?

              • unpluggged

                Who am I to judge him? Have you seen the photos of the Hebron massacre victims? Baruch Goldstein has been murdered as well, and we are in no position to condemn him. When Arabs kill Jews nobody cares. When a Jew kills an Arab everybody goes nuts and pogroms ensue. At least I am honest when I say that I don’t really care about dead Arabs. We are at war with them. There is no place for sentiments.

      • same1

        “What separates us from the Palestinians is that most Israelis condemn such acts while the Arabs glorify them and treat the perpetrators as heroes.”

        Interesting. Because the Israelis certainly regarded the IDF pilot who dropped a 1 ton bomb on a crowded apartment, killing fifteen people, including children and injuring between 50 and 150, as a hero. Ariel Sharon gave the pilot a medal and labelled the massacre “one of our greatest successes.” Similar cases abound.

        • walt kovacs

          the pilot wasnt trying to kill the children

          he was trying to kill a terrorist, who used the children as a human shield

          terrible event….but terrorist was killed

          sorry that you dont see the difference between that event and actually targeting civilians

          im sorry the mass murderer used his own family to try to keep himself safe

          thats war

          • same1

            The UN verified the use of human shields during Cast Lead—by the ISRAELIS.

            “On March 24, a report from the UN team responsible for the protection of children in war zones was released, it found “hundreds” of violations of the rights of children and accused Israeli soldiers of using children as human shields, bulldozing a home with a woman and child still inside, and shelling a building they had ordered civilians into a day earlier. One case involved using an 11-year-old boy as a human shield, by forcing him to enter suspected buildings first and also inspect bags. The report also mentioned the boy was used as a shield when Israeli soldiers came under fire. The Guardian has also received testimony from three Palestinian brothers aged 14, 15, and 16, who all claimed to have been used as human shields.”

            Rough when all the facts are against you. You could try not talking though. That would improve matters.

      • Hard Little Machine

        What’s wrong with fighting their war on their terms? Nothing.

        • קייתלין מרטין

          Are you kidding or are you truly sick? We do NOT descend to their level. We do NOT target civilians. We do NOT kill the innocent on purpose. We do NOT revel in murder. We have a moral compass. Their ways are not our ways, which is why we have support in the United States. G-d forbid we should ever do as you suggest. Then we would be truly lost.

          • same1

            Fight the war on their terms? I think that’s a splendid idea, actually. There will be far fewer fatalities on both sides when the Israelis are forced to give up the fighter jets I pay for, and the white phosphorus they attack hospitals and schools with, and the gargantuan bulldozers they use to destroy thousands of homes and give up their (illegally acquired) weapons of mass destruction. Then they will be consigned to carrying on their racist land-theft rampages with only gathered stones to throw at the Palestinians and a handful of crude rockets, causing negligible damage.

            • קייתלין מרטין

              You can’t steal land that is rightfully yours. The Red Cross concluded Israel only uses white phosphorus for lighting, not as a weapon, and is consistent with international law. There is also nothing illegal about Israel’s weapons except in your hate filled mind.

              It’s asymmetrical warfare. When the Palestinians stop attacking Israel it will stop. Israel has no interest in perpetuating the conflict.

              • same1

                First, the US dominated Red Cross claimed israel was not using any phosphorus. In any case, the more reliable Bt’Selem (and the UN) made it clear Israel was using phosphorus and used it illegally. The Bt’ Selem report is called:

                “The Gaza Strip – 12 Jan. ’09: Israel is using phosphorous illegally in Gaza Strip bombings”

                That clear enough for you?

                The other horrifying reports of Bt’Selem on the Cast Lead massacre, ( a snippet of which I posted), which totally debunk your outlandish fatality claims, you studiously avoid mentioning.

                What else can you do, right?

                Your people burn Arab children alive (sometimes with gasoline, like the subject of this thread, sometimes with white phosphorus used to attack hospitals, schools and food warehouses…but of course I’M the “hate-filled” one!

                ..Israelis and their supporters are dangerous psychotics. They have lost all ability to reason or engage with facts.

              • same1

                I suppose when you’re “God’s Chosen People,” the entire solar system is “rightfully yours.”

                You need your stupid head examined.

          • unpluggged

            I’d like to see what you would say and do when they murder your child.

        • ahad_ha_amoratsim

          Are you really saying we should break into their homes at night and slit the throat of sleeping infants? That we should murder dozens of school children at a time? Attack them on their religious holydays? Rape their women?
          I hope not. We are not supposed to be wild donkeys in human form.

          • Hard Little Machine

            When your enemy openly names your own children as legitimate targets, when your own enemy calls for your extermination, when your own enemy hides behind their own babies, I say take them at their word and carry forth on their terms. When Arabs tire of being targeted for supporting genocide they will eventually abandon genocide. When Arabs have to either build bomb shelters a la Sderot or have to explain to their own people the nobility of being killed indiscriminately then eventually that is what they will be compelled to do. When Arabs get tired of having the whole apartment building blown up with everyone in it because the neighbors upstairs are firing rockets at Israeli hospitals then they are free to lynch their own terrorists, move, kill their own leaders, foment civil war, stop killing Jews, build their own multi billion dollar Iron Dome or any number of other alternatives.

            You live in a world where your enemies make no distinction between your mere existence and a war crime. Ok then that seems to me to be the moral equivalence they understand. If that means we hand out shoulder fired missiles to ‘settlers’ and tell them take whatever action they deem necessary, if that means that your response to the endless attacks in Hevron is to start sniping at random at the Arabs there, so be it.

            • ahad_ha_amoratsim

              I have no quarrel with legitimate self-defense, whether by ‘settlers’ (a detestable term for “Jews who live where people don’t want them to) or anyone else. That also includes causing the deaths of civilians when the enemy forces the IDF to choose whether to risk killing enemy civilians endangered by the enemy unlawfully locatings rocket launchers or other military targets among them, or using them as human shields, or whether instead to risk the lives of Israelis by letting the enemy continue its attacks or even continue stock piling weapons.
              But don’t fall into the trap that enemy propagandists paint for us. Those things are a far cry from slitting the throats of babies, deliberately targetting civilians, sniping at non-combatants, or random kidnappings and murder.

              • Hard Little Machine

                “Enemy Propagandists” never need reality, facts, truth or common sense to spread their filth. They never have never will. You’re wasting your time parsing out a difference they don’t admit.

                • ahad_ha_amoratsim

                  So because they think we’re scum, we should make their jobs easier and actually become scum? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. Legit. self defense (which covers a lot of things that the IDF rules of engagement prohibit) yes, emulating the wild beasts in human form, no thank you.

                  • Hard Little Machine

                    Then you will be hand wringing in a thousand years that those Arabs still don’t love you because you don’t hate yourself as much they hate you.

                    Which of course is insane nonsensical gibberish thinking.

      • mzk1_1

        I can mention others too, but the difference is a lot more than the quality of the hand-wringing. (Popper paid a heavy price by the way, and I do consider it divine retribution.)

        Firstly, a number of those were not hotheads or haters, but counter-terrorists, people who got sick of their friends getting murdered with a weak response from their government. I don’t like what Baruch Goldstein did, but it likely prevented a planned massacre in the other direction, and it is similar to actions taken before the state by Etzel – you know, the progenitor of the the ruling party in the Knesset?

        Secondly, the number of actual and attempted murderers on their side is on a much larger scale How many people in Chevron attempted or succeeded in killing Jews over the years? Can you list them? You can list all of ours.

        But your point is not invalid. That picture of the cute little girls celebrating the kidnapping of the three boys is one of the most chilling things I have ever seen.

  • same1

    “Even the most angry and vengeful of my Jewish friends, people who were incredibly incensed about the murder of the three Jewish boys recently, were still all saying the exact same thing – that killing kids was wrong, that murder was against everything Jews believe in and that WHOEVER DID IT needed to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.”

    That’s blatantly not the case and one finds many quotes in the posts below (as well as all over the internet, by Israel’s supporters) stating that the killing of the Palestinian boy was justified or else— preposterously and racistly— claiming that such depravity could only be the work of the sub-human Arabs!

    The problem with defenders of Israel is that their fellow travelers are basically Ku Klux Klan scum and are unable to resist the urge to make that clear to readers. It must be a real frustration for the Israeli government.

    • AussieDave

      Enough of your propaganda and trolling. Be gone with you!

  • walt kovacs
    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      Yeah,and all 3 of his followers.

  • same1

    Yes…these renegades must be punished! They completely broke with protocol. If they wanted to murder Palestinian children—even burn them to death—there are societally sanctioned methods for going about this. They could have become IDF pilots and burned dozens of people alive an a matter of minutes, using US-supplied fighter jets and white phosphorus shells. They would have been welcomed home with open arms and declared ‘heroes.’ Certainly, they would not today be in Israeli custody facing charges.

  • Hasdai

    If we still can’t shake off the moral equivalence habit… how about a compromise? When Arabs attack Jews, the anti-Zionist crowd say, “I don’t condone it, but that’s what you get for residing in the wrong place.” That’s a way of taking a “righteous moral stance” without giving up your position. I think wr should do the same, just with the roles reversed.

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      No, that WOULD be moral equivalence.
      How about, next time one of you murders one of us, we expect you to universally condemn it instead of rejoicing in it and trying to kill the handful of you who do condemn it, to catch the murderers (or at least not interfere with us trying to catch them) instead of helping them and attacking the rescuers, and to call the murderers a disgraceful embarrasment instead of heroes. In return, we’ll agree not to riot, and not to attack you in the streets or burn down the city.

  • Guest

    I am so disillusioned by all that has been happening.

    The Israelis have lost the plot.

    I never imagined any Israelis could behave like some Arabs after today.

    Just what the hell were these fools thinking ?

    One person told that this would not have happened if Arabs wouldn’t have kidnapped and murdered three Jewish children.

    It’s still inexcusable.

    Yesterday Israel lost it’s right to be morally superior.

    The mother of one of the slain boys Mrs Fraenkel has set an example to all of us by her conduct. A genuine tzedeket who lives and breaths Torah.

    Read here :

    http://forward.com/articles/201500/families-of-slain-israeli-and-palestinian-teens-tu/

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      “Yesterday Israel lost it’s right to be morally superior.”
      Shtuyot. If G-d forbid Israel were celebrating this foul murder, or even failing to universally condemn it and to vigorously investigate it, I would agree with you. This blog, numerous others, every Israeli newspaper, official and spokesman, is proof that you are wrong.

  • Daniel Katz

    I am so disillusioned by all that has been happening.

    I wrote yesterday in the Caroline Glick ISRAEL Supporters Group ; “The Israelis have lost the plot. I never imagined any Israelis could behave like some Arabs after today. Just what the hell were these fools thinking ? ”

    I have now read that those who have been arrested are minors. What a bloody mess this has become.

    One person attempted to justify this sad event by writing ” This would not have happened if Arabs wouldn’t have kidnapped and murdered three Jewish children.”

    It’s still inexcusable. There is no justification. Murder of defenceless children is simply intolerable but when I learnt that there were minors responsible my few remaining brain cells short circuited .

    Yesterday Israel lost it’s right to be morally superior. We will never be able to now claim it back because Jew haters will never let us forget.

    The mother of one of the slain boys Mrs Fraenkel has set an example to all of us by her conduct. A genuine tzedeket who lives and breaths Torah. A courageous woman indeed.

    Read here :

    The families of murdered Israeli teen Naftali Fraenkel and murdered Palestinian teen Mohammed Abu Khdeir are drawing comfort from an unexpected source: each other.

    Jerusalem mayor Nir Barkat took to Facebook on Sunday to write about an “emotional and special telephone conversation between two families that have lost their sons.” He said that during his visit to the Fraenkel family home, he had a chance to speak to Hussein Abu Khdeir, Mohammed’s father, and express pain at the “barbaric” murder of his son.

    Barkat then suggested that Abu Khdeir speak to Yishai Fraenkel, the uncle of Naftali Fraenkel who recently told the press that “the life of an Arab is equally precious to that of a Jew. Blood is blood, and murder is murder, whether that murder is Jewish or Arab.” The two men took Barkat’s advice and comforted one another by telephone.

    In a separate visit organized by Rabbi Rafi Ostroff, chair of the religious council of Gush Etzion, Palestinians from the Hebron area showed up at the door of the Fraenkel family, looking to comfort the bereaved.

    Asked why they had come, one Palestinian said, “Things will only get better when we learn to cope with each other’s pain and stop getting angry at each other. Our task is to give strength to the family and also to take a step toward my nation’s liberation. We believe that the way to our liberation is through the hearts of Jews.”

    He later said that the visit went very well from his perspective. “They received us very, very nicely. The mother [Rachel Fraenkel] was incredible.”

    “I see before me a Jewish family who has lost a son opening the door to me,” he added. “That’s not obvious. It touched my heart and my nation.”

    The Palestinian visitors also mentioned an initiative spearheaded by Jews and Muslims to transform July 15, the Jewish fast day known as 17 Tammuz, into a joint fast day for people of both religions who wish to express their desire to end violence in the region.

    Read more: http://forward.com/articles/201500/families-of-slain-israeli-and-palestinian-teens-tu/#ixzz36o7F2iMf

    In memoriam Eyal Yifrach, Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frenkel, Shelly Dadon and Mohammed Abu Khdeir.
    Baruch Dayan Ha Emes – Blessed is the True Judge – ברוך דיין האמת

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      Yes, it is inexcusable.

      It is a sad fact that we Jews also produce murderers.

      We don’t yet know if the 6 kids who were arrested are the ones who murdered Mohammed Abu Khdeir.

      No one has been convicted yet.

      Those who confessed were not allowed to speak to a lawyer first.

      We do know that at least one of the boys who was arrested is mentally ill. His father says that there are witnesses that he was elsewhere at the time of the crime.

      We do know that several of the other suspects were sent for evaluation for mental issues.

      We know that Jews were swift to condemn the murder. (If you have not yet done so, you can add your name to the condemnations at http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-open-condemnation-of-murder-of.html#.U7oNefldXh5 )

      We do know that no Jews distributed sweets, or posted facebook pictures glorifying the murderers, or celebrating the murders. No cartoons of rats in the Israeli papers, and nothing aping the 3-finger salute that mocked the abduction of Naftali, Eyal and Gilad HYD.

      I am disgusted by whoever murdered murdered Mohammed Abu Khdeir.
      But his murderers do not speak for Israel or for Jews.
      As Elder of Ziyon has asked, where are the Arabs who condemn the murders of Naftali, Eyal and Gilad HYD? (Well, two of them, both teenage boys, are in hiding for their lives. Are there others who have spoken out publicly?)

  • Daniel Katz

    WHERE ARE THE LAWYERS ?
    ONCE AGAIN ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ISRAELI POLICE INEPTITUDE AND INCOMPETENCE.

    Six detainees banned from meeting with attorney

    Posted on July 6, 2014

    Sunday, July 6, 2014, 19:34 Four Honenu attorneys are representing the six detainees, three of them minors, suspected of kidnapping and murdering an Arab youth from the Shuafat neighborhood of Jerusalem.
    The Petah Tikva Magistrate Court extended the remand of five of the detainees by eight days and the remand of the sixth detainee by five days, despite the police request to extend the remand of all of the detainees by at least 15 days.
    The detainees, who deny all connection to the incident, are currently being prevented from meeting with their attorneys.
    On Monday, July 7 the Jerusalem and Petah Tikva District Courts will rule on the appeals filed by the Honenu attorneys against both the remand itself and against the ban on meeting with an attorney.
    The attorneys handling the case are Adi Kedar, Uri Keinan, Aharon Roza and Bentzi Kovler. Honenu attorney Naftali Wertzberger filed the appeal against the ban on meeting with an attorney.

    http://honenu.org/six-detainees-banned-from-meeting-with-attorney/

    “As I have written at length earlier (https://www.facebook.com/mileckib/posts/10204253533121415), if indeed the accused are proven guilty they must be dealt with according to the full extent of the law for the heinous crime they have committed.

    However, if as alleged on the Honenu site, the accused have been detained and interrogated without access to legal representation we should all be very concerned.

    According to the European Human Rights Commission (http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Police_arrest_ENG.pdf) and most other jurisdictions access to a lawyer is a basic human right.

    There is a real and recognised danger of false confessions in the absence of legal representation as documented by the Innocence Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/) and many researchers (http://www.criminal-lawyer-colorado.com/…/colorado…-“forensic’-interrogations.html) The above confirm the Halachik inadmissibility of self-incrimination. It has been reported that some of the accused are minors in which case the risk of false confessions increases greatly. ” – RABBI BENZION MILECKI

  • Art Deco

    The moderators need to lower the ban hammer.

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