Israellycool » UK Down Under Punditry in the Middle East Mon, 03 Aug 2015 19:04:30 +0000 en-US hourly 1 BDSHoles Abuse Holocaust Survivor And Call Him “Nazi” Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:01:05 +0000 The face of BDS and the anti-Israel crowd.

bournemouth action for israelHenry Schachter set up the Bournemouth Action for Israel stand at the Tolpuddle Martyrs Festival in Dorset to provide an alternative view to the Palestine Solidarity Campaign’s stall which regularly appears at the event.

But the 76-year-old said he and his colleagues were forced to retreat amid “intimidating and virulent” abuse by Left-wing Palestine supporters who were all white English people.

Mr Schachter, whose Jewish parents were killed by the Nazis, said his group was compared to the BNP during last week’s incident in which a “flashmob” threw pamphlets to the ground and tried to deface the stand.


Mr Schachter said: “As a survivor of the Holocaust it makes me feel disgusted and sad to be called things like a Nazi. The Tolpuddle Martyrs Festival is exactly the place for people from different organisations to exercise freedom of speech.

“But it was anything but free speech. It was intimidating and virulent abuse by a flashmob of far-Left bullies.”

It is quite amazing how these so called “leftists” advocate free speech and non-violence.

Except when you support Israel. Then they are all about censorship and support of terrorism.

]]> 4
Labour Pains In The UK Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:04:58 +0000 Jeremy Corbyn with Palestine Solidarity Campaign - Photo: Richard Millett

Jeremy Corbyn with Palestine Solidarity Campaign – Photo: Richard Millett

Following their comprehensive defeat at the general election earlier in May the UK’s Labour party is now trying to select a new leader. The front runner is a Mr Jeremy Corbyn. You may remember the anti Israel Liberal party was almost destroyed in that election: and now it seems the Labour party is rushing to top them in the anti-Israel stakes by electing this guy.

From the blog Guido Fawkes (a very influential political blog with hoards of inside sources):

Jeremy Corbyn has run the risk of appearing to shun the Jewish community by pulling out of an interview with the Jewish Chronicle, Britain’s most widely read Jewish newspaper.

Guido understands that Corbyn’s people approached the JC offering them a clear-the-air interview, realising he was not exactly JC readers’ number one choice given his ‘friendship‘ with Hamas and his support for the anti-Semitic Islamist Raed Salah.

The JC agreed, proposing that Corbyn be interviewed by Oliver Kamm, the neo-Con Times journalist, a Labour supporter but a friend of Israel. Upon being told Kamm would conduct the interview, Corbyn’s team informed the JC he was no longer interested in speaking to them.

Next week’s Labour Friends of Israel hustings, which Corbyn is attending and which is co-hosted by the JC, will certainly be punchy…

The link from ‘friendship‘ with Hamas leads to this video:

As Guido adds:

Read more about Corbyn’s links to various terror organisations hereExplosive…

Good luck to the Labour Friends of Israel if your party chooses this chap.

]]> 4
The BBC Shills For Hamas And Melanie Phillips Calls Them On It Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:13:11 +0000 Yesterday on Twitter, Melanie Phillips unleashed a devastating barrage of tweets against a forthcoming BBC program about Gaza. It included this:

Noted Israel hater Ben White (we’ve mentioned him many times) took exception to this:

Ben White about Melanie Phillips

Now Melanie Phillips has written the following on Facebook:

Ben White tweeted today as shown above.

My response:

Venomous rubbish. Your “blockade-busting commercial tunnels” were used by Hamas to smuggle into Gaza not just routine supplies but also arms and ammunition whose sole purpose was to murder as many innocent Israelis as possible, including children.

I cited the JCPA report on the falsification of Gaza casualty figures. (1) This noted:

“An old news item resurfaced during Operation Protective Edge saying that 160 Palestinian children were killed while digging Gaza tunnels. The original story appeared in the Journal of Palestine Studies 39 in an article entitled ‘Gaza’s Tunnel Phenomenon,’ by Nicolas Pelham. In December 2011, Pelham toured the smuggling tunnels between Gaza and Sinai. He found ‘nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies. At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials.’

“There was no international outrage against Hamas at the time for leading children to their deaths in underground passageways, nor is it clear how many Palestinian children died in the summer of 2014 – and were counted as civilian casualties – as a result of Hamas forcing them to serve as human shields and soldiers in its ongoing war against Israel.”

You appear to be relying upon a “correction” published by the Journal of Palestine Studies (2) no less than two years after it published Pelham’s article, and only after this had resurfaced causing a media frenzy and had been cited by Israel’s Prime Minister Netanyahu. This “correction” ran as follows:

“The Journal of Palestine Studies must, however, admit to an unfortunate editorial error in the article by Pelham it printed: the figure of 160 children killed in commercial tunnels is inaccurate. In the JPS text, Pelham purportedly says: “At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials.” Rather, the figure 160 reflects the total number of deaths in the tunnels recorded by the Hamas authorities as of 2012. The qualifier “children” was inadvertently added by JPS at a late stage of editing. [My emphasis] In fact, as of January 2013, al-Mezan Center for Human Rights in Gaza put the total number of Palestinians killed in the commercial tunnels at 235, only 9 of whom were children.”

You assume the figure of “only nine children” killed in the tunnels to be true, ignoring the fact that Palestinian casualty figures have been shown to be utterly unreliable. Indeed, the al Mezan Centre was previously reported as claiming that 13 children had been killed in the tunnels. How come they suddenly found four of them alive? Moreover, since the majority of tunnel workers were adolescents — the pro-Palestinian group B’tselem claimed in 2009 that “most of the workers in the tunnels are youths under 18” (3) – this proportion of tunnel casualties was clearly unsustainably low.

More pertinently, you do not acknowledge that the Journal of Palestine Studies claims that it added the word “children” itself to the 160 figure, thus maintaining that this was an error for which it was itself unaccountably responsible. No explanation was given for this apparently gratuitous distortion of Pelham’s own words. It also failed to address the fact that the phrase ‘160 children”, attributed to Pelham, directly followed his account of the unchecked use of children in the tunnels which he saw when he accompanied a police patrol in Gaza in December 2011.

Of course, you tell your credulous readers nothing of any of this context.

As you know perfectly well, I did not ever “cheer Israel as it bombed [Palestinian children] to pieces”. I supported Israel in its attempt to stop Hamas and Islamic jihad murdering Israeli civilians en masse, as it was attempting to do. I very much regretted the loss of innocent civilian life in Gaza, and deplored the fact that Hamas was using Gaza’s children as human sacrifices by deliberately siting its missiles around them, thus turning them into military targets which is a war crime. I noted that, despite this inhuman behaviour by Hamas, the IDF made more attempts to avoid the loss of innocent life, even at the cost of its own soldiers’ lives, than any army has ever done in the history of warfare.

Your false accusation against me is therefore nothing less than outright incitement to hatred by the use of incendiary falsehoods, the very tactic used against Israel for which you yourself are infamous and which you so nauseatingly deploy against me here.




]]> 4
Perfidious British Press Massacre Edition Sun, 28 Jun 2015 09:08:38 +0000 On Facebook Kay Wilson, herself the survivor of a machete terrorist attack by two Muslims, wrote:

The hypocritical semantics of the British media:
BREAKING: Israelis killed by Palestinian militants
BREAKING: British holiday-makers murdered as they sunbathe on the beach in barbaric attack by terrorists.

I corrected her. The first one should be:

BREAKING: Palestinian youth shot by Israeli security services after alleged attack

Go back and remind yourself of some of the headlines after the Har Nof Synagogue attack on Honest Reporting.

Every one of these papers has, at one time or another, excused Palestinian terrorism against Jews and Israelis because of the perceived crimes of Israel. Years of this have emboldened the terrorists, worldwide, and this is one of the results.

If this was an attack against Jews, the press would be rushing to work out which grievance of this Muslim terrorist they could ascribe his actions too. The worst you can say of these unfortunate British tourists is that they occupied the wrong sun beds and my heart goes out to their families and friends.

Please consider Israeli beaches for your next holiday. As we showed in a video last year, we have a special system for dealing with garbage that tries to wash ashore on our beaches.

Sunday Mirror  front page beach massacre Sunday Telegraph  front page beach massacre Sunday Times  front page beach massacre The Observer front page beach massacre ]]> 5
George Galloway’s Lawyer Needs A Good Lawyer Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:07:33 +0000 Remember George Galloway’s dodgy law firm Chambers Solicitors? The one who sent out borderline illegal threatening letters to anyone who so much as tweeted that George Galloway hated Jews? The ones with a website explaining how happy they were to defend people on charges of child sex and murdering their relatives for “honour”. Well they’re in trouble:

TWO solicitors at a leading Bradford law firm, including a senior partner, and a third employee are facing fraud charges after a long-running investigation by West Yorkshire Police.

Mohammed Ayub, 53, senior partner with Chambers Solicitors in Grattan Road, and Neil Frew, 47, a solicitor who works as immigration department associate with the firm, are accused of conspiracy to defraud.

Ayub’s brother Mohammed Riaz, 47, who works in the translation side of the company’s business, has been summonsed to appear in court in relation to the matter.

A spokesman for the Crown Prosecution Service confirmed Ayub and Frew had been charged with conspiracy to defraud.

They are understood to have been charged after answering their bail at a police station.

The allegations relate to the defrauding of the Legal Aid Agency over payments for the provision of interpretation services.

Chambers has vehemently denied any criminality.

The charges follow police raids on the firm’s offices in the centre of Bradford in July last year.

Read it all at the Telegraph & Argus.

Oh dear.

]]> 1
Reader Post: The Shocking Moral Equivalence of The BBC’s Evan Davis Thu, 18 Jun 2015 15:50:02 +0000 Johnny Simson is an Israeli born in Johannesburg, South Africa. His hobbies are Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and annoying anti-Semites.

During an interview with Tzipi Livni on Newsnight, the BBC’s Evan Davis asked “Would you describe your parents as terrorists?”. This is a basic tenet of today’s progressive Left. “One man’s terrorist is another man’s Freedom Fighter”, they say. You can see the full interview below.

Indeed Irgun, Haganah and Lehi engaged the British with asymmetrical warfare. They did not wear uniforms. They did kill civilians and civil servants working for the British government. So why are they any different than Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, the beheader of Lee Rigby and perpetrators of 7/7?

In order to be called freedom fighter one has to genuinely be a fighter for freedom and democracy. Irgun were fighting for human rights of Jewish people who had just survived a Holocaust. The British were blocking Jewish refugees from escaping the Holocaust, barring them entry to Palestine which was against the Mandate given to Great Britain in the San Remo conference of 1920. The British reneged on the Balfour declaration at a time the Jewish people needed a place of refuge more than anything else.

When the British finally were driven out of Israel, Irgun was absorbed into the IDF and Menachem Begin became a member of the Knesset. He respected the democracy of Israel and sat in the opposition until 1977. When he was elected he respected freedom of speech and the opposition. Unlike Hamas who violently took over Gaza when Fatah failed to respect the results of the PA 2006 elections and threw Fatah members of rooftops. Neither Fatah nor Hamas respect freedom of speech. Neither have anything that resembles rule of law in territories under their control. Hence neither Hamas nor Fatah can be called Freedom fighters since it is not Freedom they are fighting for.

I would like to break down the principle differences between Irgun and modern day Islamic terrorists.

I – Ideology and motivation

The ideology of Islamist terror groups is totalitarian. They wish to impose Sharia on their hosts. In the case of Fatah you get a secular dictatorship at best. They are exclusive of any minority or group that does not share their religion, ethnicity and ideology. They are motivated by deep hatred of the West, Infidels and specifically Jews. How do we know this? Here is what a Hamas MP has said about Israel. Ahmad Bahr on Al Aqsa TV in a sermon: “If the enemy sets foot on a single square inch of Islamic land, Jihad becomes an individual duty,…in order to annihilate those Jews.”

Note, there is no talk of human rights nor freedom here. Contrast this with Jabotinski who is the founding father of Revisionist Zionism. Mentor to Menachem Begin.

Ze’ev Jabotinski on the Arabs:

“All of us, all Jews and Zionists of all schools of thought, want the best for the Arabs of Eretz Israel[Land of Israel]. We do not want to eject even one Arab from either the left or the right bank of the Jordan River. We want them to prosper both economically and culturally. We envision the regime of Jewish Palestine as follows: most of the population will be Jewish, but equal rights for all Arab citizens will not only be guaranteed, they will also be fulfilled.”

Ze’ev Jabotinski on democracy and freedom of speech:

“Today, the test of democracy is freedom of the press: the most liberal constitution is a lie if the press is muzzled, but where the press is free there is a hope even despite defects of the constitution.”

II – Methodology

The primary targets of the Irgun were soldiers and bases of the British army. Civilians were harmed but they were the exception rather than the rule. Usually civilians casualties were due to operational failures rather then a result of deliberately targeting civilians. Contrast this with Hamas and Fatah. Their primary targets are civilians. The more civilians harmed the higher the success of the operation.

III – Geography

Islamic terror groups do not limit their scope of action to their own territory. Take the Hezbollah bombing of an Israeli bus of tourists in Burgas, Bulgaria and many other failed attempts all over the globe. Anyone naive enough to believe that Hezbollah only were fighting to drive IDF out of S. Lebanon should ask themselves this Question. Why are they still attacking Israelis? Israel left S. Lebanon in 2000. Obviously the occupation of S. Lebanon was not their primal motivation. One should ask oneself, why Muslim immigrants and Muslim born in England see fit to attack British civilians on British soil. If the motivation is the war in Iraq then why are there still terror threats? Isn’t war in Iraq over? Why attack British civilians in England instead of fighting British troops in Iraq? Did Jews in English take up arms against British civilians when Irgun was fighting to end the British Mandate? No! Irgun operations were limited strictly to the area of the British mandate in Palestine.

IV – End Goal

The end goal of the PLO is clear. The destruction of the Jewish state. Arafat was quite clear about this while giving a lecture in 1994 in a mosque in Johannesburg. One year after signing the OSLO peace accords with Israel. Here is what he said:
“This agreement, I am not considering it more than the agreement which had been signed between our prophet Mohammed and Koraish, and you remember the Caliph Omar had refused this agreement and [considered] it a despicable truce.” Arafat was referring to the infamous Treaty of Hudaybiyyah which was merely a temporary truce before Muhammad broke it and massacred the tribe of Koraish.

A few years later Arafat publicly said: “We will not bend or fail until the blood of every last Jew from the youngest child to the oldest elder is spilt to redeem our land!” in his speech “The Impending Total Collapse of Israel” at the Grand Hotel in Stockholm, Sweden, January 30, 1996

The end goal of Islamist terror groups in Britain is the destruction of Western style democracy and it’s replacement with Sharia. Sharia is an Apartheid system of Law where Muslims are granted more rights by law than non-Muslims.

The declared end goal of Irgun was democracy in the Jewish homeland. When they achieved this goal they disbanded. Irgun was absorbed in the Hagana which became the IDF.

A Western nation that fails to understand the stark differences between Jewish guerilla groups fighting for the survival of the Jewish people, freedom and democracy will eventually lose the very freedom they have no value for.

]]> 5
Insanity In The UK Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:16:03 +0000 big ben instagramed by Brian of London squareShared by a Facebook Friend from the UK:

Parliamentary answer Wednesday, 17 June 2015.

Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, what financial assistance his Department has given to the Palestinian Authority and its agencies each year for that last three years for which information is available.

Total UK Government spend in Palestinian Territories over 3 years
2012/13 – £87,685,103.93
2013/14 – £93,858,767.21
2014/15 – £83,404,099.83

= £264,947,970.97

Mr Desmond Swayne answered.


Oh, that’s $416,437,272.33 or ₪1,597,303,459.24 or €369,726,079.45

]]> 6
Ding Dong, The Ding Dong (George Galloway) Loses His Seat In UK Election Fri, 08 May 2015 06:08:35 +0000 George Galloway assaultWhat great news to wake up to: Anti-Zionist-Not-Antisemitic George Galloway has lost his seat in Bradford, paving the way for Israelis to feel welcome in Bradford. Not to mention alignment of the planets, and universal harmony allowing meaningful contact with all forms of life from extraterrestrial beings to common household pets.

Ok, perhaps we are not quite there yet, but let’s agree this is great news.

Bonus: He’s being investigated for being a naughty boy.

Respect leader George Galloway has been reported to police for allegedly breaking election law.

The Bradford West MP is said to have retweeted his party’s own exit poll before voting ended.

Bradford Council’s returning officer made the report to police, according to BBC Radio Leeds.

It is against the law to discuss voting while polls are open, under section 66 of the Representation of the People’s Act.

A spokesman for Mr Galloway told the BBC: “The returning officer is wasting police time. It’s a storm in a thimble.”

West Yorkshire Police said it would be reviewing the matter.

I am not sure if this is the retweet in question, but it can’t hurt to screenshot it, can it?

galloway retweet

Added bonus: he may be investigated for being a naughty boy again.

George Galloway could face an investigation by the Commons expenses watchdog after his former parliamentary secretary claimed that he wasted public money on personal chores.

Aisha Ali-Khan has lodged an official complaint alleging she spent more time on Mr Galloway’s personal errands than she did on parliamentary duties when she worked for the Bradford West MP.

Ms Ali-Khan said she was asked to carry out a list of non-parliamentary tasks during her six months working for Mr Galloway in 2012, including shopping for his underwear and planning his wedding.

Solicitors acting for Ms Ali-Khan have now filed an official complaint with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA), claiming Mr Galloway breached his obligations to use parliamentary funds only for parliamentary functions and activities.

IPSA could investigate Mr Galloway if it finds there is enough evidence to support Ms Ali-Khan’s claims of improper payments.

Because I’m a giver, I will help Galloway out by suggesting some alternative employment opportunities for him.

Update: It gets even better! David Ward has also lost is seat.

Update: Guess who Galloway is blaming the defeat on. The J..ehh, I mean the Zionists!

“I don’t begrudge the Labour members here their moment of celebration of course,” he said.

“But there will be others who are already celebrating: the venal, the vile, the racists and the Zionists will all be celebrating. The hyena can bounce on the lion’s grave but it can never be a lion and in any case, I’m not in my grave. As a matter of fact I’m going off now to plan the next campaign.”

In other words, his usual suspects.

Interesting too he uses the “hyena” metaphor. Must remind him of an old friend.

Update: A priceless moment.

]]> 23
Sincerest Form Of Flattery Moment: UK Government Copies The IDF’s Talpiot Scheme Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:28:32 +0000 talpiot symbolPress release from the UK Government:

Francis Maude, Minister for Cabinet Office, announced the new Cyber First scheme to enhance the UK’s cyber security skills base.

Francis Maude, Minister for the Cabinet Office with responsibility for Cyber Security, today (24 March 2015) announced a new Cyber First scheme to enhance the UK’s cyber security skills base and meet the increasing demand of this rapidly growing sector.

Speaking in Parliament, the minister launched a pilot student sponsorship programme called Cyber First. This is aimed at identifying the individuals who have the aptitude to become the next generation of UK cyber security experts. Cyber First will draw on talent from the broadest range of backgrounds to meet the UK’s future national security needs in government or companies involved in national security. It will find those already showing potential for a top career in cyber security through school competitions such as the Cyber Security Challenge Schools Programme and national maths competitions.

Cyber First will offer both financial assistance for those studying relevant science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) courses at undergraduate level and include work experience with government or UK private sector firms within the field of national security. There is a guarantee of employment upon graduation. GCHQ will run this as a pilot scheme which will provide funding of £4,000 for each of up to 20 student places. It is intended that a full scheme across participating departments, agencies and industry will be implemented in 2016, building on the pilot and lessons learned.

The scheme is based on the Israeli Talpiot scheme which identifies exceptional cyber promise to create a cyber elite force who go on to great careers in government and the private sector. Israel has more high-tech start-ups and a larger venture capital industry per capita than any other country.

The Talipot scheme mentioned in that last paragraph is an ultra elite part of the Israeli Defence Forces. This isn’t elite in the SAS or Navy Seal meaning, this is academically and intellectually ultra elite. But it is still, very much, part of the compulsory military service that most Israelis go through. Somewhere around 50 youngsters are chosen each year for this unit and quite a few will drop out. It’s an intense combination of academic university education and military leadership training combined.

From Wikipedia:

Talpiot program is an elite Israel Defense Forces training program, for recruits who have demonstrated outstanding academic ability in the sciences and leadership potential. Graduates of the Talpiot program pursue double higher education while serving in the army, and then utilize their expertise to further IDF research and development in technological leadership positions.[1][2] The program was inaugurated in 1979.[3]

It’s nice to see the UK Government strongly endorsing this part of the IDF by adopting its methods and aims even if they choose not to mention that it is part of the IDF in this press release.

H/t Matthew Kalman on Facebook.

]]> 0
An Inspector Calls Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:19:12 +0000 chambers legal cheek

Image credit: Legal Cheek

Yesterday I wrote up the contents of the web site belonging to Chambers Solicitors, the firm of lawyers who act on behalf of George Galloway. Here are some other interesting tidbits about that firm that are worth bearing in mind.

Last July the firm was raided by the West Yorkshire Police and two people were arrested there as reported at the time in Bradford’s local paper, The Telegraph and Argus:

Two people were in custody last night following a police raid at a Bradford solicitors’ office.

They were arrested after police swooped on the business in Grattan Road at about 10am.

West Yorkshire Police have declined to give further details of the investigation, though they say it is an ongoing inquiry into an alleged fraud. The action was orchestrated by the force’s Economic Crime Unit.

Detective Sergeant Gary Ferris said: “This was a pre-planned operation carried out by the Economic Crime Unit in conjunction with Bradford CID and Neighbourhood Policing Teams.”

The UK based legal blog Legal Cheek followed up and asked for comment and got this:

The force today would only say that those two people had been released on police bail. Chambers Solicitors’ senior partner Mohammed Ayub told Legal Cheek this afternoon that he had no comment on the police investigation.

Legal Cheek also seems to be well on top of this story and a good source of real information.

And as if this wasn’t enough bad news for George Galloway, the UK Newspapers are now full of the story of the woman who is to run against him for the Parliamentary seat of Bradford West which Galloway holds at the moment.

The headlines scream that she’s the daughter of a murderer but it’s worth getting past those to understand her story (Daily Telegraph):

A Labour Party candidate has told her extraordinary life story including her mother’s imprisonment for murder and the arranged marriage she was forced into at the age of 15.

Last week, Naz Shah was selected to fight the seat of Bradford West at the forthcoming general election, the town where she grew up in extreme poverty, becoming homeless after her father left her mother for a 16-year-old neighbour when she was six.

She has now told the full story of traumatic childhood, including how she was forced to be a parent to her two sisters after her mother, who had suffered years of abuse at the hands of a local drug dealer, was jailed for his murder.

The full story is in the local Urban Echo paper and they published it on International Womens’ Day. I don’t know a great deal more about this woman, but if she can unseat George Galloway, she’ll be a hero for that reason alone.

Update 13:30: I want to mildly qualify my enthusiasm for Naz Shah above with the following quote from Ben Judah in Table Magazine. He’s writing a huge (and very good so far) exposition on Jew hatred in the UK and in the second part (of five) he has this to say about Bradford and specifically Naz Shah (my emphasis):

Bradford is not much of a place to be a Jew. There are fewer than 300 Jews living in the city and only a handful observant. The city’s one Jewish politician is very quiet about his origins, Orthodox Jews are nervous to walk around in kippot, and even a Jewish funeral has been attacked by marauding Muslim anti-Zionist protesters. Even the candidates bidding to dislodge George Galloway now mimic his pro-Palestinian rhetoric, seeking to outdo each other in their condemnation of Israel. The only party that stands a chance of dislodging him is the Labour Party. I contacted every leading candidate bidding to represent them against George Galloway. Most had websites exhibiting photos of themselves at pro-Palestinian protests. Only two wrote back: One Labor hopeful responded rather bizarrely to my request for an interview on the subject of anti-Semitism with a video and transcript of herself speaking at a pro-Palestinian rally. Another, Naz Shah, a Palestine activist I contacted by Twitter direct message stopped responding when I explained Tablet magazine was a Jewish publication. Shah was finally selected to fight Galloway for Labour from an all-Muslim shortlist. The first candidate selected by Labour withdrew amid accusations Pakistani clan elders were unhappy.

]]> 2