If You Want Two States, You Support Terrorists

There’s too much to say. But I’m paralysed. Looking at Facebook and Twitter is too painful. I’m sick of today already and we haven’t even buried our dead.

I have a lot to say, but not yet. For now I’ll link to Bret Stephens in the WSJ. It’s pay walled but I’ll quote as much here as I can. To read it all you have to google “Where are the Palestinian Mothers?” and select the link. It’s also being shared on Facebook under the its sub-title: “A culture that celebrates kidnapping is not fit for statehood.”

In March 2004 a Palestinian teenager named Hussam Abdo was spotted by Israeli soldiers behaving suspiciously as he approached the Hawara checkpoint in the West Bank. Ordered at gunpoint to raise his sweater, the startled boy exposed a suicide vest loaded with nearly 20 pounds of explosives and metal scraps, constructed to maximize carnage. A video taken by a journalist at the checkpoint captured the scene as Abdo was given scissors to cut himself free of the vest, which had been strapped tight to his body in the expectation that it wouldn’t have to come off. He’s been in an Israeli prison ever since.

Abdo provided a portrait of a suicide bomber as a young man. He had an intellectual disability. He was bullied by classmates who called him “the ugly dwarf.” He came from a comparatively well-off family. He had been lured into the bombing only the night before, with the promise of sex in the afterlife. His family was outraged that he had been recruited for martyrdom.

Essentially the rest of his piece lays out how widespread the support for terrorists who murder Jewish children is within the whole of Palestinian culture. The dam has burst now: it is impossible to assert supporters for these acts are a few extremists. All of Palestinian society is extreme. What is rare (and a gem when we find it) is a voice of sanity that condemns these actions.

Here’s my question: What kind of society produces such mothers? Whence the women who cheer on their boys to blow themselves up or murder the children of their neighbors?

Well-intentioned Western liberals may prefer not to ask, because at least some of the conceivable answers may upset the comforting cliché that all human beings can relate on some level, whatever the cultural differences. Or they may accuse me of picking a few stray anecdotes and treating them as dispositive, as if I’m the only Western journalist to encounter the unsettling reality of a society sunk into a culture of hate. Or they can claim that I am ignoring the suffering of Palestinian women whose innocent children have died at Israeli hands.

But I’m not ignoring that suffering. To kill innocent people deliberately is odious, to kill them accidentally or “collaterally” is, at a minimum, tragic. I just have yet to meet the Israeli mother who wants to raise her boys to become kidnappers and murderers—and who isn’t afraid of saying as much to visiting journalists.

We are different: we do not set out in the morning to kill their children. Ever. Just look at the incredible care with which we target their terrorists! The smallest amount of explosive we can use to get the job done. If anyone ever does they are drummed out of our society mercilessly. If Jews even draw graffiti on a Palestinian building they are widely condemned!

As for the Palestinians and their inveterate sympathizers in the West, perhaps they should note that a culture that too often openly celebrates martyrdom and murder is not fit for statehood, and that making excuses for that culture only makes it more unfit. Postwar Germany put itself through a process of moral rehabilitation that began with a recognition of what it had done. Palestinians who want a state should do the same, starting with the mothers.

If you support this Palestinian culture of hate having a state (i.e. the two state solution) you are supporting terror.

The two state solution must be considered impossible with the current culture of the entire Palestinian people. That’s not saying it can’t change, but the scale of the change needed would be unprecedented in all of human history.

 

About Brian of London

Brian of London is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Since making aliyah in 2009, Brian has blogged at Israellycool. Brian's interests include electric cars, world peace and an end to world hunger. Besides blogging here, Brian of London now writes at the Times of Israel. Brian of London also hosted Shire Network News

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  • Daniel A.

    Brian, you’ve got a very eloquent and heartfelt post here (Stephens is convincing, as always), but I disagree emphatically with your conclusions.
    The notion of two-states is vital, incidentally for Israel’s sake. We simply don’t know how to contain — as you say — the cultural elements that encourage martyrdom within a single state.
    As such, separation is key. And whether it is a state actually governed by the Pals., or some Arab nation stepping in as protector, we simply cannot live together.

    • http://www.israellycool.com/ Brian of London

      We don’t need YAFAS. Yet another failed Arab state. Let them rename Jordan if they must. At this point I favour crushing their spirit and erasing the name of Palestine. It’s the kind of total victory a Churchill would have understood to be necessary. It’s not practical, so we’ll probably pick another impractical continuation of what we have now. Sadly.

      • Jim from Iowa

        You should take some more time to clear your head, Brian. A military solution to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict will result in the deaths of many more innocent people. A negotiated settlement, the kind your government and mine endorse, is the solution.

        • Travis

          Negotiations which naturally will lead no where due to Arab irredentism and the culture of revanchism will lead to far more blood shed.

        • J B

          Having negotiations at AK-47-point doesn’t bring peace, it just reinforces the boldness of the terrorists holding the gun.
          Either they need to throw out the AK-47, or we need to take it away from them. Only then could there be a hope of a real negotiated peace.

        • ahad_ha_amoratsim

          And how many innocent people have died because of the fantasy that the Arabs are ready, willing and able for a two-state solution, when in fact they are none of these? And how many would die from embracing the fantasy that their state would not quickly revert to the tyranny and chaos of so many other Arab states, and revert to war as a way to unite itself or to deflect popular discontent from corrupt and oppressive rulers?

        • Art Deco

          Again, public opinion research indicates that north of a third of the Arab population of the West Bank and Gaza understands ‘solution’ to mean the dissolution of the State of Israel. Another 30% prefers to slow-walk it, insisting that any settlement with Israel include a franchise for a fuzzily defined subset of Arabs to settle in Israel at their pleasure. When only about 1/3 of the population on the other side willing and able to conceive of your preferred solution, it does not fly. Maybe in a generation or two, but not holding my breath.

          What Conor Cruise O’Brien said a generation ago still holds: “There is no solution. There is only security.”

        • ybrandstetter

          Te alternative to a peaceful repatriation of Arabs to their homelands east of the jordan is protracted conflict. I am wondering if you think more dead jews is a better solution than peaceful repatriation. The US can help by taking in a couple million Arabs, and charge Israel for it.

        • mzk1_1

          And then what happens?

          • Jim from Iowa

            You live happily ever after, just like in a fairy story.

          • Jim from Iowa

            You live happily ever after, just like in a fairy story.

      • Daniel A.

        Brian, I understand you’re perturbed, but I don’t quite follow what it is you’re suggesting.
        I contend, as you probably do, that those glorifying “martyrs” cannot live alongside those who suffer from said “martyrdom”.

        Nothing — as far as I see it — in what you’ve written solves the problem of having ~1.5 mil. would-be martyrs and their supporters living at your expense.
        We need a divorce. And not necessarily an amicable one, from those who would do us harm.

    • J B

      A State means sole sovereignty over territory, and that is a power. There is overwhelming evidence that the culture and values of Palestinian Arab society today is such that if given that power now, it would be used to expand the War Against the Jews.
      When we handed Gaza to the Palestinian Arabs, what did they do with it? I don’t think I need to spell that out for you.
      We can wax eloquent about *someday* having “two states for two peoples”, but in the current generation, and every generation in which the Arabs keep teaching their children to glorify hate and violence, such a Palestinian Arab state would just be a neo-Nazi Arabia like the Palestinian Arab leader Haj Amin al-Husseini was working to build.
      So, anybody who is pushing for “two states” NOW, is supporting that noxious culture and its violent agenda, whether or not they admit this to themselves.
      What changes take place after another dozen generations, well, we can wait and see. But, like Brian, I think the only way we’ll ultimately see a “De-Nazified Palestine” is to defeat them and show the failure of their Arab/Muslim-supremacist, antisemitic ideology, just as was necessary for the first Nazis.

      • Daniel A.

        FM Liberman is promoting a plan of “regional-peace”, or, as I labelled it, an Arab protectorate over the Pals. That’s the only thing conceivable at the moment, I believe.
        What you say, about Neo-Nazi elements there is absolutely true and can be readily extrapolated to include the majority of the Arab world (as you mentioned). But, any “de-Nazification” would require immediate and perennial Israeli presence in the Pal. heartland, Israeli investment in the revamping of the Pal. education system, Israeli maintenance of the day-to-day order for the Pals. &c. It is, I’m afraid, economically infeasible for Israel. Germany too, was only reformed with billions in Marshall Plan dollars; a luxury we don’t have.
        So, what I am aiming at is an Arab country — while not friendly to Israel — understanding of the need to pursue calm for its own self-interest, taking over the administration of the (majority) WB. It’s only way forward, now.

        • J B

          That’s all well and good, however, your plan relies on the notion of the Arabs “understanding of the need to pursue calm for its own self-interest, taking over the administration of the (majority) WB”. That is what the Palestinian Authority was created to do during the Oslo accords. How well has that worked out? Honestly.
          Therefore, all you’re really proposing is to double-down on a bet that we’ve already clearly lost.
          All the horrible things the Arabs are trying to do out of the West Bank (including the recent kidnapping and murder of Eyal, Gilad, and Naftali) would only increase as soon as Israel’s security presence were pulled and the Arabs had a free hand to do as they please (much as they do in Gaza, which again, as a test case, makes the likely outcome abundantly clear) except with the West Bank the threat would be far worse than Gaza for a multitude of reasons.
          How does this sound like a “way forward” to you?

          • Daniel A.

            It sounds like a start to me. At any rate it is ridiculous to assume that Israel can manage a hoard of more than 1.5 mil. ill-wishers(to say the least).
            Arabs have demonstrated, that, under the right circumstances they can appreciate their gains in any situations. Despite being — and remaining — fragile, the peace with Egypt & Jordan has been maintained; and, up to the recent disintegration of Syria, Assad did not so much as breathe in Israel’s direction.

            • J B

              Arabs are human beings, and are not one mass. The future behavior of Palestinian Arab society cannot be predicted based on what Egypt and Syria do (and in both of those cases, by the way, the official and unofficial peace was maintained by dictators who felt they had more to lose by breaking the peace than by keeping it; it’s not like their societies ever developed peaceful attitudes).
              Rather, we can only reasonably judge based on the past actions of Palestinian Arabs, and those past actions speak for themselves.
              Empowering the members of a society filled with hatred and violence like theirs only enables them to ramp up their proudly proclaimed murderous plans.
              It’s really ABCs, frankly. Is it reasonable to give an openly unrepentant serial killer a kitchen knife (for peaceful purposes only) next door to his favorite victims and expect him to stick to carving turkey?
              If this doesn’t make sense to you, I don’t know what else to say.

              • Daniel A.

                I think you’re missing the point. I distinctly stated that the Pal. Arabs had squandered their chance to set up self-government and the only plausible way forward would be to tender their administration to some Arab protectorate(with or without Arab-League backing, &c).
                An Arab state is not synonymous with this dysfunctional and murderous Pal. simulacrum. It has certain responsibilities and a basic and elemental need to maintain some stability. This is what we should be aiming for: making it inconvenient for them to kill, maim, pillage, &c. An Arab state has those minimal responsibilities, and at the very least, we deserve exploring that option.
                All others, at this stage — and I hope you would agree with me — are extremely inviable.

                • J B

                  Well, leaving the “other” possible approaches alone for the moment, I still assert your ideas here are completely unrealistic.

                  Even if you want to hand off the West Bank and Gaza to be ruled by other Arab/Muslim powers, I ask you two things:

                  1) Who actually would take them? All the Arab states who have Palestinian Arab refugees just leave them to rot in camps as a weapon against Israel (including the PA, by the way). What Arab state actually wants to be part of the solution? Especially since Egypt and Jordan, the natural choices, were happy to leave those territories in Israel’s hands during the respective peace negotiations, and both countries have been bitten by Palestinian Arab terrorism themselves. Nobody else wants them for any reason. It’s not happening.

                  2) Even if some Arab/Muslim country took over ruling those territories, who says that that country is trustworthy of maintaining the peace any more than the PA or Hamas?

                  Either way, if the Palestinian Arabs are given control of their borders with or without the participation of some other Antisemitic Arab/Muslim country, they can import weapons freely and would gain the potential to do much more harm than they’re doing even now.

                  Beyond this, you keep running back to one basic claim; as soon as a Palestinian state is established, perforce they’ll need to moderate themselves and focus on good governance, in your words, “it has certain responsibilities and a basic and elemental need to maintain some stability…an Arab state has those minimal responsibilities.”

                  This has been explicitly proven wrong. Gaza is effectively a mini-Palestinian-Arab state, and we see how it behaves. We see how the proto-State of the PA conducts itself. This whole line of thinking is not new, and indeed has thoroughly failed.

                  As for “making it inconvenient for them to kill, maim, pillage, &c”, well it still seems obvious to me that giving them control over territory and borders will actually make all of those things much more convient, all things being equal.

                  We’re going in circles.

                  1) Do you agree or disagree that giving them control of territory empowers them to potentially use it as a platform for importing more and deadlier weapons at will, as well as unimpeaded terrorism planning and operation with the watchful eyes if the IDF withdrawn, even though you choose to believe they won’t do those things when given the chance?

                  2) Do you agree or disagree that Gaza and the PA constitute de facto mini-states, and that their behaviors are significant indicators of how a more complete Palestinian Arab state would very likely act?

                  3) Is there any Arab/Muslim state of significant power and clout that could take over the Palestinian Arabs as you suggest, which is NOT drenched in Antisemitism, violence, authoritarianism, and/or is technically in a state of war with Israel today?

                  4) Assuming you answer “agree” to the first two questions, and “no” to the third question (and to my mind, how could you not), what conclusion do you draw about the liklihood of your plan ending positively?

            • Avi

              Yeah, but you’re talking about dealings made with states that cannot pretend they aren’t states. The Musrabs pretend they are a state when it suits them and the rest of the time they play dumb and blame us for everything. The whole thing is a combo of anti-Semitism and no one in the west holding them accountable for their actions as a result of this non-state status. But just as most here have agreed, they don’t deserve a state and they wouldn’t do anything positive with it if they get it.

              I agree with Brian. We need to whip them so badly they don’t even know where to fire rockets or which direction to go to find a Jewish kid to kidnap. Then with some foreign aid money we pack their shit and throw them out. They’ve been given far too many chances to play nice and they just keep throwing sand in our faces.

    • ybrandstetter

      True. Which is why they must depart to one of their numerous lands, starting with Jordan 80 percent of which is of related to those who migrated to the west side of the Jordan.

      • Daniel A.

        Are you going to volunteer to commit the crime of forcible mass expulsion? I am not going to party to that. Sorry.

        • J B

          Well, I’d put it this way, myself. I don’t want to be a part of that either. But, if we were to get to a point where we found ourselves clearly with only two options: commit mass expulsion, or allow them to continue pursuing the crime of genocide against us (it’s in the Hamas charter, by the way), well, I know which one of those I’d choose.
          I don’t think we’re at that divide yet, but I’ll confess I sometimes wonder.

        • mzk1_1

          As I recall, the boys and girls (that’s what they were) who forcibly expelled the Jews from Gaza were not volunteers. Nor did they come out if it whole.
          A two-state solution implies sending out conscripted boys and girls to, as you put it, “commit the crime of forcible mass expulsion”. Or are you simply stating we should leave things as they are (an opinion which holds much merit).

  • Travis

    The two state solution was always a fool’s chimera. It presupposes that the lack of a “Palestine” was the reason for the wars. The Arabs could have had a Palestine any time between 1947 and 1967.

  • Norman_In_New_York

    While I endorse the two-state solution in principle, it remains a pipe dream given the Arab mentality. I’m afraid it will take much more than a diplomatic formula that foreign interlopers are obsessed with to effect the necessary attitude adjustment. And since we know that Jews will never be loved by Western elites, the only response is to make them fear us if they would act against us.

    • ahad_ha_amoratsim

      I doubt that the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians will be ready for a state before Mashiach comes, at which point it won’t matter.

    • ybrandstetter

      The two-state solution was implemented in 1922 by earmarking the west side of the Jordan for the Jewish national home, and creating transjordan as an Arab Muslim monarchy. This monarchy invaded the jewish patrimony in 1948 as far as the green line, then ceded all claims in 1994. So where do the palestinians come into this history? Answer, they were invented. no relationship between a nashashibi who settled in Hebron to an Issawi from Anbar province who migrated to jerusalem or Al fayumi from upper egypt, etc etc except for rabid Islamic-mandated jew hatred

  • mzk1_1

    But Brian, the proponents of annexation do propose a two-state solution. Two States – Israel until the Jordan, and Gaza.

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