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Response to Rafahpundits

Rafahpundits has posted about my “dialogue” with Andrew Schamess.

I have been observing a “blogfight” for a few days now. It is one of those public cross blog conversations that occur every now and again where people do not talk directly to each other but argue it out in their blog posts.

 

The “blogversation” in question is between Andrew of semtism.net and David of Israellycool. Semitism.net I have been reading since the first post and have found the author thoughtful and knowledgeable. Israellycool I read less often, Andrew referred to it as a “rah rah nationalist blog” and though I am inclined to agree there is enough “other” content to make it an interesting read. I appreciate David’s willingness to debate with visitors even if I don’t always agree with his conclusions. The non Israel/Palestine stuff that crops up is quite humorous and anyone that “gets” the Simpsons can’t be all bad.

I started re-reading Israellycool recently after David and Mobius (of Orthodox Anrachist) fell out (again) and it’s one of two “Israeli advocacy blogs” I read regularly.

“Falling out” assumes we were friends, which was never the case. But I certainly don’t dislike him as a person (I don’t know him at all). It was always a matter of him taking offense when I attacked his arguments, despite my reassurance that I would hammer his arguments for all their worth, but not get personal with him.

I prefer to get my hasbara straight from the streets of Tel Aviv and generally prefer JewSchool, Israelity, Harry, etc, but I make an exception for Ann (of Boker Tov Boulder) and David.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by “straight from the streets of Tel Aviv.” If you mean “Israel”, then you should find that I live here, just like Harry does (we actually live relatively close to each other). And if I am not mistaken, Jewschool’s contributors do not all live here.

If nothing else reading their blogs saves me having to read Little Green Footballs directly!

If more people thought like you, my traffic would be huge!

(David probably most closely resembles (in terms of political leaning) my many right wing friends and colleagues and possibly stands slightly to the left of Ann!).

 

Anyway the “blogfight” really started getting interesting with David of Israellycool stating in a post something to the effect of “The Palestinians aren’t really a people in the normal sense of the word.” Andrew then replied with a comprehensive post of his own titled “Palestinian People Found to Exist! Jewish Leaders Express Shock, Remorse.” (a truly LGF stylee headline!).

You see? Even Schamess reads Charles.

David then replied with a post called Shameless Schamess (if nothing else their tit for tat post titles are worth reading).

 

As ever in the world of Middle East politics people throw stuff at each other, call each other names and use their logic and their sources to prove the other is wrong. I see it every day on many a Middle East blog and I find it disheartening but predictable.

If you at the posts in question, you will notice that Schamess accused me of racism and plagiarism. Given these serious accusations, my response was rather muted. Yes, I did call him “shameless” in the title, but it rhymes. And I love a good rhyme. But more than that – I more or less stuck to the arguments. Which seems to have worked, since he has so far had nothing to say in response.

I read and re-read David’s post and wasn’t sure if he was against the idea of a Palestinian state or whether he was just arguing that prior to the creation of Israel there was no concept of “Palestinian” nationalism but it got me to wondering anyway.

The point of my post was to show how “palestinian” nationalism arose out of political considerations, and a desire to rid the region of the Jewish presence in the land. The “palestinians” are not a distinguishable nation of Arabs who lived in the land of Israel for centuries prior to the wave of Jewish immigration that began in the late 19th century, as many claim, but rather Arabs no different that those from surrounding countries, who established an “identity” during the course of the 20th century.

 

I am not denying that there were Arabs living in the land prior to this wave of Jewish immigration, nor their deserving of rights. And although I believe..

 

  • That G-d gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people

  • That the Arabs who encouraged their brethren in Israel to leave after their defeat in the War of Independence are mostly responsible for the “refugee” problem

  • That the Arab states could easily have absorbed the PLO Arabs into their countries, rather than encouraging them to remain refugees in order to accomplish the goal of destroying Israel

  • That the PLO Arab’s use of terrorism and lack of outcry against the murder of innocent Israeli men, women and children should disqualify them from ever having a state

  • That Jordan was already established as the PLO Arab state
  •  

    ..I would theoretically be willing to accept the existence of a demilitarized, democratic PLO Arab state if the PLO Arabs forswore all terrorism, and accepted Israel’s existence. My opposition to a PLO Arab state stems mostly from the fact that they have waged war on us, and it does not look like abating. If establishing a PLO Arab state was to save lives (rather than endanger them), then I may be in favor of it.

     

    Having said that, my preferred solution would be for Jordan to be recognized as the PLO Arab state that it is, and for the PLO Arabs to voluntarily go and live there. However, I am pragmatic and realize that this may not happen. (I do not support expulsions, or anything of the kind).


    Rafahpundits has posted about my “dialogue” with Andrew Schamess.

    I have been observing a “blogfight” for a few days now. It is one of those public cross blog conversations that occur every now and again where people do not talk directly to each other but argue it out in their blog posts.

     

    The “blogversation” in question is between Andrew of semtism.net and David of Israellycool. Semitism.net I have been reading since the first post and have found the author thoughtful and knowledgeable. Israellycool I read less often, Andrew referred to it as a “rah rah nationalist blog” and though I am inclined to agree there is enough “other” content to make it an interesting read. I appreciate David’s willingness to debate with visitors even if I don’t always agree with his conclusions. The non Israel/Palestine stuff that crops up is quite humorous and anyone that “gets” the Simpsons can’t be all bad.

    About the author

    Picture of David Lange

    David Lange

    A law school graduate, David Lange transitioned from work in the oil and hi-tech industries into fulltime Israel advocacy. He is a respected commentator and Middle East analyst who has often been cited by the mainstream media
    Picture of David Lange

    David Lange

    A law school graduate, David Lange transitioned from work in the oil and hi-tech industries into fulltime Israel advocacy. He is a respected commentator and Middle East analyst who has often been cited by the mainstream media
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